One In The Eye For The Anti 4x4 Brigade

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Divide and conquer...

[Bibs]

Don't want to be controversial, but you did ask. Most people on the road can't drive particularly well. 4x4 drivers can't park either, not without using my vehicle instead of the brake pedal...

If people could drive they wouldn't need the perceived protection of a 4x4...

Stuart

What a ridiculous comment, are you on the same planet as us?

I had an X5 4.4 V8 as a company car for a while, can I not drive either 'mr sweeping statement'?

[MKE40]

Hippies dont or wont realise that some of us are obliged to run vehicles because of our occupation.

I do not even begin to understand what makes any one want a People Carrier, why not buy the real deal and get a Transit which is one of Henry's finest achievements ( after the GT40 of course)

If I had a choice, I would favour any hot hatch rollerskate that handled well. Economy, performance,parkability and fun to drive.

This trailer would look pretty damn stupid behind a certain politicians Prius.

Mike

[Advantage]

Don't want to be controversial, but you did ask. Most people on the road can't drive particularly well. 4x4 drivers can't park either, not without using my vehicle instead of the brake pedal...

If people could drive they wouldn't need the perceived protection of a 4x4...

Stuart

I don't want to be controversial but I didn't ask. You offered an opinion based on your own one sided views of your world.

Your second statement is also untrue. I've been driving Land Rovers in one form or another for over 20 years. I've never clapped eyes on your car, so how could I have used it as a brake pedal?

Or did you mean to say 'some' 4x4 drivers can't park? Because that would be a valid statement without using sweeping generalisations - in the same way 'some Saxo drivers' can't park. But just saying 'some drivers' can't park would probably be more accurate.

If your driving is as blinkered as your opinions, then I'm glad I have two tonnes of crumple zone around me. But I'm not sure it'd be enough.

[arbell9]

This all points to there being a need for a sweeping generalisations thread. Somewhere where you can post total tosh remarks. The "nobody can drive a 4x4 comment is really dim" and so if poeple are go to say dim things lets have them in a dim thread.

I had a Nissan Navara Pickup for a year and parked it in the multistory at work every day between all the little runabouts and exec beamers. Not a single dent in any other vehicle, nor even close to getting any.

Maybe modders could relocate these daft remarks to a special thread so we can see them being made and who by. Just an idea.

[oneshot]

Don't want to be controversial, but you did ask. Most people on the road can't drive particularly well. 4x4 drivers can't park either, not without using my vehicle instead of the brake pedal...

If people could drive they wouldn't need the perceived protection of a 4x4...

Stuart

At one point I owned a Freelander (No comments please!!) - are you saying I can't drive? How many driving tests have you passed? I have the normal test and the advanced test - the advanced test includes a parallel parking test from either the left or the right.

I had a freelander because I towed a jet ski and used the freelander to launch and retrieve the craft. The number of times I had to recover other people's ski's because their car couldn't pull it out of the water. You try pulling a water craft up a wet slipway with a "normal" vehicle. Even ordinary 4WD vehicles had trouble because they didn't have the ground clearance.

Please don't generalise about people.

[Tentenths]

Stuart

One of these for the other side?

[Kimbers]

Maybe modders could relocate these daft remarks to a special thread so we can see them being made and who by. Just an idea.

I'm sure all us mods are watching this thread closely.

We do have a special thread for daft comments and it's called the Mod Room. You won't find it so don't try!

I was going to close this thread before it gets out of hand, but seeing as how our esteemed leader has been watching and actually replied I gather he's ok with it.

No matter how daft a comment Stuart makes, he's entitled to his opinion (despite the fact I sometimes drive a 4x4). Please remember that.

Stuart, please do not make sweeping generalisations that YOU KNOW will upset other members. You have been warned.

Please be aware that if it continues on the course it's on IT WILL BE CLOSED DOWN.

Thanks.

[arbell9]

I'm sure all us mods are watching this thread closely.

We do have a special thread for daft comments and it's called the Mod Room. You won't find it so don't try!

Thanks.

Daft comments are differerent from offensive and ignorant ones, I would only expect to have offensive or plain ignorant remarks removed to the mod room. IMO, daft decomes ignorant when they are perpetuated in a thread. Offensive is in the eye of the modder. This was verging into the ignorant but there was plenty of heathly rebuttals which were calmly voiced. (thats nice reflection of the type of folk on here ).

Alex

[USAndretti42]

Isn't a Subaru or an Evo a 4x4? They have 4 wheels and are 4-wheel drive.

Where do soft-roaders come into this discussion? Are they acceptable when they have only 2-wheel drive as they are no longer 4x4's? They aren't big so don't take up more road than a normal car. A CRV weighs no more than a Ford Galaxy. They are often a bit slower than saloons so, if speed kills, which is what we are being told, they are safe. So what's the problem?

It's just discrimination and prejudice coming into play. Some people see a 4x4 and jump to a bunch of conclusions about the car and the people driving it, bit like others do when they see a Volvo or BMW or a modded car or a sports car.

By the way, I love MPV's. Everything else seems so cramped after using one of them and so limited in what you can do with them. You can carry a bunch of people, a bunch of cargo or a mixture of both. We have two kids but the 7-seater Honda was great. Parents in the front, kids in row 2, coats on row 3, dogs in the back with the wheelchair poking through a gap next to the middle row. The amount of furniture and stuff we could fit in it when we moved house was great. Driving down to Spain in our Espace a few years back was definitely the best way to do it. But they do take up a lot of room and are heavy so use more fuel than a 4-seater saloon.

If people feel invulnerable in a car, I blame recent adverts which emphasis the safety features of varius cars full of crumple zones, pre-tensioners, safety cells, airbags and high crash ratings. They imply that you will walk away from any crash in their product. It ain't true.

[Paul C]

"Paul C is not on the forum as much as he used to be"

Etc.

I spend all day at work, my first PC access is at home around 8pm when i might

have a look at the forum to see what the Esprit lot have been chatting about that

day.

Unfortunately i'm duty bound to read all this bollox, and as well as taking up the

time i could have spent reading stuff that isn't slowly and predictably spiralling into

utter shite, it depresses me to the point i just log off and do something else instead.

Threads like this start and we are talking about it in the Mod room by the third or fourth

post, just waiting for it to turn into a load of bile, and it does without fail. I'd like to delete

any political thread the minute it starts, but that would make us the 'hilary clintons' and

Nannies that PH rejects say we are.

So, we repeatedly sit and watch these theads fester, while members send 'report post

to a moderator' PM's to us, and then once everyones tearing each others hearts out,

we lock it or bin it, just like the one before, and the one before that etc, etc, etc...

If this thread was a pub it would be one of these:

"Shall we pop in here for one?"

"Nah mate, i popped in last night and it was full of ****'* again"

"Ok, lets go somewhere else"

After a while you both walk past without asking...

[MGFCrasher]

Probably not relevant but...

I have a Range Rover 4.4 and I cant park.In fact the last time I tried in Lancaster Porsche's car park in Colchester I parked it straight in the back of a brand new 911 which was waiting to go out.

Thats why my wife drives it and I get the train.Still it could have been worse ,the Ferarri and Bentley dealership is next door.

Oh and Prior to that I had another brand new one in 2004 which got t boned whilst I was driving it at 6 months old.I blamed it on the fact it was diesel as it didnt pull away fast enough!! I got 6 points anyway.

Still funny how in 6 years of Esprit ownership I 've never hit a thing in that !!

Rich

sport 350

[mdw]

3.30pm any weekday, all the roads near schools are fulll of parents in huge 4x4

cars with words on the side like 'warrior', 'thunder', 'Highlander' etc, etc...

Only a few of these people can drive or park. The thing is intended as a big tank

to protect their kiddie when they crash it. It's like road conkers, hit a saxo and your

kid is safe as your in a big tonka truck style thing.

If we had a kid, first thing i'd do is buy a real landrover (not a gaylander or a disco).

Just so when when some moron in a smaller or equally sized tank hits me, i win the

game of road conkers, or at least survive it.

A ford Ka should be a safe runaround, IF everyone had them.

But while idiots are buying tanks to protect themselves from their own stupidity,

i want one too, as the ford Ka won't survive these morons without looking like a

pie dish.

Spot on, that is exactly my view. I was reversed into by one mother in a Range Rover on the school run and she had to be told she had done it by a 3rd party as she didnt belive me. Bonnet and head lamp damaged ( just a mondeo so nothing to cry about). What you say re size wins is true, theres no contest. We do seem to be living in a as long as im alright I dont care about you society.

Didnt some one say the best way to ensure road safety was to have a great big spike coming out of the centre or every steering wheel and then see how every one drives.

I guess thats one of the good things about a Lotus , you are not as insulated from the road or whats going on around you.

[WayneB]

Ive done alot of miles in 4X4s over the years.

I started with a Range Rover in 1981, but soon replaced it with this Jeep Cherokee Cheif. I used it mostly for towing my racing cars , but did actually use it off road from time to time (the four wheel drive is great for towing out of muddy paddock areas).

On arriving in Canada the first vehicle I bought was an new Jeep Cherokee, which I again used for towing and general work around the farm I lived on at the time. Sold it 8 years later with 350,000 kms on it (still running great).

I dont presently own a 4X4 (but have the use of a Chevrolet Suburban which is an excellent tow/farm vehicle)

If someone wants to buy one just to feel safe and look outdoorsey I have absolutely no problem with that! (its their money)

[USAndretti42]

If someone wants to buy one just to feel safe and look outdoorsey I have absolutely no problem with that! (its their money)

Wayne brings up an excellent point. Why should we be stopping people buying the vehicle they want? It would be the start of a very slippery slope to give the ammunition to the "people should have only socially responsible cars" brigade. And we all know that those "gas-guzzling, baby-killing, penis extension" sportscars next.

Instead, we should be focussing on getting all the people who aren't interested in cars or driving out of their cars and into some sort of public transport to leave the roads nice and empty for hooning. That way, that woman who reversed into mdw's car will be out of the way.

[Jonathan]

Why should we be stopping people buying the vehicle they want?

Becuase (can't speak for USA) we live in a do-gooders society where everyone has an opinion, and feels the need to drum it into you every 10mins. The rest of them simply have nothing better to do with their lives and try to make up for it by attempting to assume a position of power.

The only time I have a problem with them is when the people in the drivers seat can't drive them propperly (don't care what you say there is an art to driving any vehicle which in inherintly different from the day-to-day, be it a supercar, van, articulated lorry) or try and assume that position of power becuase their vehicle of choice is bigger and heavier than yours - thats a driver's mentality issue though, I know plenty of responsible drivers out there who happen to own 4x4's.

If someone's driving like a tit - fair game but these people who wait on Zebra crossings to walk out on them and lecture the driver about their vehicle are the people I really can't abide.

[USAndretti42]

A bloke at work when I was in Northampton had a Discovery. Obviously an urban 4x4 oik except it was regularly covered in mud up to the windows or higher. He used to help out with the local scouts troop and often went mud-plugging with them. He also liked to go green-laning.

With the high fixed costs of car ownership (purchase price, road tax, insurance, etc.) he couldn't afford a more city-friendly car for going to work so he used his 4x4. I have no problems with what he did.

[Nifty]

Nice wheelcover

When I go and see my townie friends in London they love me parking my soiled (and sometimes manured) Landy in amongst the gleaming Chelsea tractors. It's funny that I get a lot of respect even from taxis and buses, never have a problem pulling out onto a busy road and into a queue. I presume they see the fact that I'm not afraid to get the vehicle dirty and somehow equate that to a lack of fear of damaging it .. or their vehicle

I also seem to attract the boy racers to chase me through the bends with my wheelcover !

Edited May 21, 2007 by Nifty