Now "Happy Lotus Owner"...

[Turbo911]

😁👍

[C8RKH]

I am no expert but I would offer up a couple of observations.

1. Everything here (and above) is subjective UNTIL the rationale from Lotus for rejecting the warranty claim is declared. Until that point in time talk of the auto blipper or reasons for this and that is purely conjecture and irrelevant as anything other than a point of view.

2. Lotus has a right to reject a warranty claim but it does not have the right to walk away from its obligations which are clear that their product must be fit for purpose. So you could argue that the there is an onus on Lotus to "prove" that their product was not defective and I do believe that if this went to court they would be asked for such proof - i.e. that in this instance the gearbox did not have nay manufacturing flaws or defects AND if there numerous examples of similar failures this could and would be brought to the attention of the court to support the move that the product (the car) was not free from defects and fit for purpose.  So again, it would depend on Lotus declaring their reasons for the rejection backed up with specifics for this case would it not? If the OP does not accept the reasons provided then he has the ability to appeal against the decision of Lotus and can take it to the industry body/ombudsman for an independent review of the decision to reject.

3. If the failure was down to a non OEM part being fitted (in this case an auto blipper retailed (they are not the manufacturer) by Komo Tec then this would have to be clearly explained - you cannot just throw in a get out of jail free card and walk away.  Also, on the specific point of the auto blipper - (1) it does not attach to the gearbox, the gearbox has not been opened - so the Rolex example if false - (I would say that the Rolex example is like saying that the Rolex failed due to the automatic watch winder that it was being wound with is a more relevant example). The actions of the auto blipper are verifiable by an ECU dump which will show if the engine and therefore the gearbox has been over revved or operated outside of its intended and stated tolerances will it not?  So it should be relatively simple to prove or not if the auto blipper was the cause.

I personally do n ot think threads like this when the problem is "active" are productive, and do believe the best course of action is to deal calmly, and professionally with the only parties that matter - the dealer and the manufacturer. Leave the histrionics for later when you recount the good/bad experience in full with all the facts.  Just my approach, do not expect anyone to agree with it.

[Turbo911]

Well, Thanks thanks thanks so much for your post this realy is just what i needed i,m realy not a bad person and i belive Lotus hopefully will/should do the right thing i dont want a fight with anyone and it realy is hard for me because despite all my recent resentment of Lotus i absolutly love the brand 😶

[tim_marra]

Hey fella, don't feel bad. This is a good place and I am sure everyone would like to see you get the right outcome 

[C8RKH]

No problem buddy. I have my own warranty stuff going on but am just following my own advice!  :)

 

[andyj007]

a lot of sense in Andys (c8rkh) post i too think perhaps its best to keep posts between active parties until the problem is sorted or not,  at that point let it all loose... 

its all a little speculative until the facts are known.

im on the "if the gearbox has a design faliure, no one should be able to walk away on a technicality , thats poor accountability.. if its a part failure its a part  failure regardless of whether your blipping the throttle or a computer programme is.. or even if that is relevant to your issues.. (personally i can 't see it is)

i hope for a favorable outcome,,or at least a very good reason why your  warranty claim  has been rejected... .that is fair .   lotus market their cars as track cars, they are not supermarket trip family cars..

they should be fit for that purpose.. to a point..  id be pretty miffed if they packed up.. after a few track days.. 

 

personally i would have stopped driving the car when it got its first issue.. dropping out of gear ... driving continuously holding the gear leaver  in gear, (i think thats what it reads you did ) until it or something else  broke again   (may be unrelated issues  )  is a pretty good reason against your warranty case..or a full nill cost repair..  for instance it may have been a simple fix, but your actions deliberately holding in gear  could have caused further damage and cost.. if that were the case  i would not expect that to be covered.... if it could be proven that additional damage was caused..

whatever,  im not lotus, so my opinions matter non but  good luck moving forwards.. i hope its gets sorted for you..

keep us informed..

[Turbo911]

12 hours ago, andyj007 said:

a lot of sense in Andys (c8rkh) post i too think perhaps its best to keep posts between active parties until the problem is sorted or not,  at that point let it all loose... 

its all a little speculative until the facts are known.

im on the "if the gearbox has a design faliure, no one should be able to walk away on a technicality , thats poor accountability.. if its a part failure its a part  failure regardless of whether your blipping the throttle or a computer programme is.. or even if that is relevant to your issues.. (personally i can 't see it is)

i hope for a favorable outcome,,or at least a very good reason why your  warranty claim  has been rejected... .that is fair .   lotus market their cars as track cars, they are not supermarket trip family cars..

they should be fit for that purpose.. to a point..  id be pretty miffed if they packed up.. after a few track days.. 

 

personally i would have stopped driving the car when it got its first issue.. dropping out of gear ... driving continuously holding the gear leaver  in gear, (i think thats what it reads you did ) until it or something else  broke again   (may be unrelated issues  )  is a pretty good reason against your warranty case..or a full nill cost repair..  for instance it may have been a simple fix, but your actions deliberately holding in gear  could have caused further damage and cost.. if that were the case  i would not expect that to be covered.... if it could be proven that additional damage was caused..

whatever,  im not lotus, so my opinions matter non but  good luck moving forwards.. i hope its gets sorted for you..

keep us informed..

Thanks for your post, perhaps in hindsight the first time it jumped out of gear I should have called it a day but being honest my decision on the day was lets adjust the cables it could be incorrectly set up and when stressed pulling it out of gear every time we adjusted I would go back out and think  wicked it's sorted  then after 4 laps when up to a certain temp  bang it would pop out again, my decision to carry on that day was probably down to just spending £54k on a track based car and parting with another £300 to be at donington, in my earlier post it does kinda read that I just blasted around all day holding it in gear this wasn't the case, If and when I hear form the dealer or lotus ( and yes another day as gone by with nothing from either) I will keep the post updated, Bottom line here for me at the moment is I have a brand new £54k car been sat in the dealership for pushing onto a month with a broken gearbox THIS REALY REALY IS UNACEBTABLE NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME IS

[pete]

Has the dealer had a good look at it and reported back or has it been left to lotus

[Steve V8]

16 hours ago, andyj007 said:

   lotus market their cars as track cars, they are not supermarket trip family cars..

I get your frustration at not having had an answer one way or the other, but on up side for you, this suggests there is at least discussion between your dealer and Lotus regarding a warranty claim. Although I admire your honesty, I feel a little white lie may have served you better in this instance.

IMO anyone that tracks a car regardless of make or model, is there to push themselves and their machine to the limit and sometimes beyond, in your opening statement you admit competitiveness with a trackday mate, which is fair enough, but anyone that rags a car to the limit should expect mechanical failiure of some part at some point. Anyone that races cars knows and expects that during a season there will be DNF's due to mechanical failiure, and these are cars that may be stripped and rebuilt on a regular basis. Yes these are track biased cars, but are not indestructible.

If I were your dealer, it would be sorry mate, trackday what did you expect, do one. I'd save the solicitors and court fees and put them towards a new gearbox, you could end up with a legal bill that would buy a couple of Lotus, or suck up to your dealer using the leverage of a possible future purchase and hope for the best.

Just my opinion to take on board. All the best with the claim.

 

[Turbo911]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your opinion although I'm in a position in life to enjoy taking exotic cars on track I would disagree that I took the car to its or my limit I'm closely connected to the uk racing scene and if the car was shed with slicks a proper racing seat and full cage then perhaps so,

[Barrykearley]

To be fair - these boxes fail in Toyotas driven by old ladies.

ragging it anywhere wouldn’t of helped 

[Steve V8]

4 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

To be fair - these boxes fail in Toyotas driven by old ladies.

ragging it anywhere wouldn’t of helped 

Yes but old ladies don't tend to do another 4 laps after the detent springs have failed. They just slip the clutch and rev the bollocks off em. 😀

 

[Barrykearley]

@Steve V8 whack some copperslip on it - she’ll be fine 👍

[C8RKH]

3 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

I get your frustration at not having had an answer one way or the other, but on up side for you, this suggests there is at least discussion between your dealer and Lotus regarding a warranty claim

I can only talk about MY experience which was after 7 weeks it was obvious there was NO discussion ongoing between dealer and Lotus.

You do need to keep on at it.

I also disagree re your "sorry mate trackday" comment. Lotus cars do not say anywhere that track use invalidates your warranty (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) and indeed they use track comparisons, times and performance as THE main marketing message. I think it woukd be hard for Lotus to defend a position in court of our cars are not meant or built for track use!

Again just my opinion.

[Turbo911]

I,m pleased i posted this on here, perhaps having no responce is that something is happening in the distance i might even get a call on monday saying were extremley sorry for supplying you a car thats not registered not taxed and we have let you and your wife drive it around on puplic roads with no valid insurance and we apreciate your loyal custom so we would like to offer you a new gearbox for your £54k elise and hope you enjoy the rest of your ownership,  🤔 HMMMMMMMMMMM 

 

 

[pete]

Is it Lotus's fault that the car was not registered or taxed?

[Barrykearley]

That’s the responsibility of the supplying dealer 

[Mark030358]

To my mind, a response one way or the other should be forth coming, then you know where you stand. Took four weeks approx to get my old V6S sorted (time at the dealers as no parts available). Perhaps it’s a similar situation with yours and hopefully you will get a positive result.

cheers

Mark

[Turbo911]

15 minutes ago, pete said:

Is it Lotus's fault that the car was not registered or taxed?

I don't really know if it is or not i would think lotus have a relationship with the dealer that there is some kind of ethics or bond where the dealer and lotus work together to supply there customers with the best experiance they can,  both the the dealer and the lotus  are aware of this issue, yet  another day gone and  still no responce.......

4 minutes ago, Mark030358 said:

To my mind, a response one way or the other should be forth coming, then you know where you stand. Took four weeks approx to get my old V6S sorted (time at the dealers as no parts available). Perhaps it’s a similar situation with yours and hopefully you will get a positive result.

cheers

Mark

its funny that you mentioned that as the cv boot issue was solved with there are no boots avaialble so lotus have replaced the whole drive shaft, strange IMO.... 

[C8RKH]

You don't buy a car from Lotus. You buy it from the dealer.

Your primary relationship is with the dealer, not with Lotus.

Lotus has a responsibility to make sure that its dealers live up to the brand values and treats its customers well and fairly and generally operates ethically and fairly. 

The responsibility for ensuring the product is delivered to you as the customer, in the correct condition (and that includes ensuring it is registered and taxed) is with the dealer, not with Lotus. The responsibility, as the supplying agent, is with the dealer to take ownership of the rectification of faults (although it seems from reading on here that many dealers are happy to pass the buck back to Lotus and to tell THEIR customer that the issue is with Lotus - go figure why they might do that, took about 5 seconds in reality for me, but then I'm a thick bar steward).

The responsibility for fixing defects lies with the Dealer as that is who your contract is with, oh, and the finance company if you part paid with Finance which is always a good idea as you get extra consumer protection that way and you can pay the outstanding balance at any time with no further penalty.

The dealer is a customer of Lotus and has a relationship and a contract with them. In order to recoup the costs of warranty work, the Dealer needs to agree the work with Lotus, however, if that agreement is not forthcoming it does not absolve the dealer from addressing the issues provided you are dealing with the dealer you entered into the contract with to supply the vehicle.

I get frustrated hearing Lotus should do this or that, the plain and simple truth is the dealer network are there to deal with the customers and they need to step up.  Lotus has many very good dealers who do this. It seems it has some who don't. 

You say another day has gone by and still no news. Well, today is a Saturday and I doubt the people in the office at Lotus work a Saturday, so, what did you expect?  Keep on at the dealer, or, get in touch with Lotus Customer Service themselves (they are good) and bypass the dealer if they are not providing satisfaction. If you decide to do this, it is because the dealer has failed you, by not getting it resolved, not because Lotus has.

Again, apologies, I might be a complete knob and be spouting nonsense. But this is my understanding of how the industry works. Please correct me where I am wrong so I can improve my understanding.

[Steve V8]

46 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The responsibility for fixing defects lies with the Dealer? 

Or does it?

The suppling dealer is just one franchise of a network of authorised dealers, for warranty work it is at the discretion of the customer as to which network dealer they wish to take their car for warranty work, but it's advisable to use the suppling dealer, that dealer then takes the responsibility to report back to Lotus the nature of the warranty complaint.

The chosen authorised dealer will then be asked to make a detailed report, and will also be asked in their opinion if they feel the complaint is justified. If there is any doubt a manufacturers representative or engineer will need to examine the vehicle to authorise or decline the claim.

All this paperwork and toing and froing takes time. But this type of warranty work needs to be authorised, if your dealer fails to get warranty work authorised prior to commencement then they won't be reimbursed for parts or labour by Lotus. It's not as simple as it looks, and takes time.

Should the warranty work then be declined and you disagree with the decision, you must then pursue the dealer with whom you have a contract, for supply of faulty or goods not fit for purpose. Your dealer will then have access to a comprehensive engineers report from Lotus, believe me your dealer won't want to go down this path without good reason, but if necessary and Lotus remain resolute not to cough up, they will. Should you win only then can the dealer claim back his costs from Lotus. Should you lose, be prepared for a hefty bill and a shagged Lotus being dumped on your driveway.

At no point do you have the right to pursue Lotus directly.

 

 

[silverfrost]

I remember someone getting a warranty claim from Audi, when the car was even out of its warranty period,  it was a 50 percent contribution from them as a good will gesture  !  Do not think in this day and age companies would do such a thing nowdays sadly.!

Steve you are very right about if the dealer proceeds with the work and Lotus denies the warranty. The dealer would indeed foot the bit if they continued without authority.

[Barrykearley]

My vans in for possibly a new engine under warranty next week in warranty.

my buddy’s just over 2 yr old vw transporter with 30k on the clock and out of warranty is also having a new engine fitted. Vw are covering the entire cost of that - some law about expected to last a reasonable time or some such pishe. Solicitors have utterly blasted VW

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, silverfrost said:

I remember someone getting a warranty claim from Audi, when the car was even out of its warranty period,  it was a 50 percent contribution from them as a good will gesture  !  Do not think in this day and age companies would do such a thing nowdays sadly.!

Steve you are very right about if the dealer proceeds with the work and Lotus denies the warranty. The dealer would indeed foot the bit if they continued without authority.

There are several instances of Lotus doing just that on here.

Steve - your contract for purchase is with the supplying dealer so your consumer rights including right to reject and right to expect a product fit for purpose and of reasonable quality, longevity etc. are pursued through them. The responsibility re fitness for purpose etc. is on top of the warranty, the warranty does not replace ststutory rights etc.as the warranty is a seperate contract that is over and above.

[PaulCP]

@C8RKH, the points in your post 5 up from this are absolutely correct. I went through the process of successfully rejecting a LR late last year which was 12 months old at the time.

Many dealers will put every obstacle in your way and try to confuse you but, as long as you understand the CRA 2015 Act, perseverance usually pays as long as you do your homework and do things by the book.