Castle Combe And An Nsx

[Advantage]

With Saturday looming and no doubt spirits will be high...this happened just a couple of days ago at last weekend's Japfest. Go steady people:

No injuries apparently, but the car's a gonner. Unfortunately there was no trackday insurance either!

[Mark Blanchard]

. Totalled!

[bigsi]

i will never. ever, put mine on any track.. never..

[Bibs]

Probably the best plan Si I would like to track mine once it works again but it would be on a track I know well and hopefully with an instructor with me with arms long enough to reach the wheel if I get it wrong!

Ouchy, that looks very painful. James @ SWLC mentioned this yesterday, looks like it's the end of that gorgeous car

[karluk29]

did you manage to go si?

only been once, that was a japfest, really good, same things like that happen though, i saw a few offs when i went. just grass though

[matk]

The "Parade" lap on the Factory Day was well fast enough for me in my Esprit!

[Katie]

Good thing there were no injuries, but OUCH, 20K gone in one fell swoop....that has to hurt.

I'd like to put ours on the track, but only without any other drivers around......would be mortified if my actions caused damage to other people/cars. And really, I don't know that I could entirely trust myself on a race track.....

Perhaps my best option would be a parade lap.

[superdavelotus]

Was this at the same track then?

That's convinced me not to take mine, thanks for the heads-up!

The first and last time I took mine on the track (apart from the Lotus driver training day and the parade lap at Hethell) was at Outlon Park. There were a couple of cars that spun in front of me so I slammed on. Pulled up no problem at all... Then an MX5 came flying over the hill, slammed on a locked up heading towards me! I quickly put my car into first and wheel spun forward just as the MX5 came to rest in the same spot as I had first stopped!

As for track day insurance, does anyone know of an insurance company that actually pays out when you write off your car?

[Mark Blanchard]

Around Castle Combe the corner that gets lots of people is Quarry. On the approach, you go down and up Avon Rise (a cork screw), at the brow of the hill the steering gets lighter as the car lifts, then a right around the corner, which can unbalance the car. Seen loads of nasty crashes there. They

[DBredS4]

Castle Combe.

The corner which i think that happened on was CAMP CORNER.

it has a dip right in the middle so when you balance the car into it, the bump unbalances it and you end up losing the back end. If you dont catch the oversteer, or God forbid LIFT OFF, then this happens. I've seen videos of an Impreza/Evo not straightening quick enough/lifting off and doing the exact same thing. Also, I saw Paul Matty do this in an Exige but he missed the wall by a few feet, very lucky. Best bet here I think is to oversteer too much (stay on the gas) because then you go off inside the track. Lift off and this happens!!!!

Castle_Combe.doc

[bigsi]

taking my car on a track has never appealed to me, unless you have spent a fortune getting the car track ready i wouldnt take it on there, normal road ready cars are not meant t go on a track i believe.

that nsx owner must be gutted beyond belief, now he has to start again, and unless he had track insurance he cant claim. when you see f1 drivers slam their cars you have to wonder, if a pro driver like them can crash then an untrained drivers odds of crashing are tenfold.

besides my car looks like its doing 200mph sat still. oh those lines

[mayevora]

The "Parade" lap on the Factory Day was well fast enough for me in my Esprit!

Can't remember who, but someone span their Esprit in front of me on first lap at the factory - just starting to spit and got a little greasy.

[Bibs]

That was John Long and I'll happily admit to almost soiling myself right then!

[drellis]

i was half thinking of buying this car, owver had just that week spent big money getting gearbox sorted before selling - things like this always make me think if i go on track to get a 205 gti, so i can drive hard if i want too without big cost issues.

dave

[MPx]

I really dont get your trepidation guys. There's nothing quite like the grin you get from putting together a really nice lap. I'm not talking about trying to set a lap record. Just get one of the "unknown" instructors to take you round and you'll realise you drive like a muppet anyway. But if you drive within your own capabilities you'll probably not come close to those of the car. Obviously things could go wrong (probably will for me now having posted this!) but things can go wrong on the roads (trip home from the factory anyone?) and having been in a couple of convoys with you guys, you all seem to be pretty gung ho on occasions on the road. Why not improve the odds by sticking it on a track that you can learn with only eleven others all going the same way? It might damage your pride cos there will be a few quick drivers there - and thats the biggest danger if you try to take them on. But I dont mind being lapped by the best - it just makes me appreciate how good they are when I'm doing my stuff at the same time.

Go on....you know you want to really....

Mike

[esprithk]

oh...lucky the driver was ok, but the car is totalled.

the Elise Club Hong Kong keeps asking me to take my Esprit to the track, but heck, no!!

there are not many Esprit around and I already had a hard time to own one finally.

I am not stupid to put my Esprit in risk, not to mention the money that I have invested..

[islandbloke]

What Mike said!

I had Lottie around Oulton Park when she was still quite new - and realised you really DO need an LSD for circuit use!! She kept unweighting her inside rear wheel and spinning it. Definitely made me a better driver of her on the roads though - the trick with a trackday is to stay within your limits and not thrash the mechanicals - unless there's a HUGE run-off area or a gravel trap to save you.

[Advantage]

I must admit, I agree with Mike. I do enjoy a blast round the track every so often but not so much in an Esprit any more.

I've taken most of the Esprits I've owned round a track including both V8s. They're pretty good but do have their limitations, mainly the brakes. (I especially enjoyed lapping an S4S in my first V8 at Combe )

Thing is, I've also owned a 340R for two years. Once you've tracked something as focussed as that, the Esprit is a wobbly old warhorse only good for A-road commutes. I can understand why anyone would be reluctant to take to the track nowadays when you're likely to be swamped by Elises buzzing about.

The only upside is that on the journey home the Esprit is a great place to sit while munching at the miles and you can laugh at the Elise drivers as they scrabble about looking for earplugs.....

[Loteuk]

I must admit, I agree with Mike. I do enjoy a blast round the track every so often but not so much in an Esprit any more.

I've taken most of the Esprits I've owned round a track including both V8s. They're pretty good but do have their limitations, mainly the brakes. (I especially enjoyed lapping an S4S in my first V8 at Combe )

Thing is, I've also owned a 340R for two years. Once you've tracked something as focussed as that, the Esprit is a wobbly old warhorse only good for A-road commutes. I can understand why anyone would be reluctant to take to the track nowadays when you're likely to be swamped by Elises buzzing about.

The only upside is that on the journey home the Esprit is a great place to sit while munching at the miles and you can laugh at the Elise drivers as they scrabble about looking for earplugs.....

Agreed, I experienced the same in me Exige.

The Esprit is great on the track and entertaining out of the bends at Castle Coombe. Thing is, the track is loads better for exploring and experimenting with your machine without trees, lamp posts and cars coming in the opposite direction and its not a crime to be passed by someone (it is if you re passed by a kid wearing Healies)!

Going at your own comfortable pace and watching the brake points , you wont end up disappointed and in the armaco.

Hmmm ... better get the car ready!

[mayevora]

the Elise Club Hong Kong keeps asking me to take my Esprit to the track, but heck, no!!

there are not many Esprit around and I already had a hard time to own one finally.

I am not stupid to put my Esprit in risk, not to mention the money that I have invested..

Your Esprit will be at more risk on the road than on the track if Hong Kong is anything like the UK. Not necessarily from your caperbilities but the incaperbilities of other drivers.

[Greg Z]

Snap oversteer is very common is the NSX, as someone mentioned earlier YOU MUSTstay in the gas to attempt to avoid it. I spun mine on the roadway and did many 360's till I gained contol and drove it out of the spin and luckly did't hit anything solid.

Here is a picture of it at home and another right after I did the 360's.

[Lotus-Ltd]

I do my first track day this Friday at P.I.R. (Portalnd International Raceway). I'll be in an intermediate class, as I have passed the Pro Drive intoduction to racing class at that very track. It's a nice 1.9 mile track, pretty flat, with 9 turns.

This will be with the Club Lotus Northwest, and it can be called more of a "test and tune" day. There is no passing except on the two straightaways, and safety is really stressed. No one wants to have any mishaps . . . However, one never knows.

Pictures like that NSX really concern me. I would be devastated.

Ed

[ajax317]

Just skimming the thread I'm sure I picked up almost a whiff of fatalism from some of the posts. At the end of the day you're in control as the driver - out of the hundreds of trackdays I've attended I don't think I've ever seen 2 cars collect each other, so the only thing you have to worry about is you making a mistake. We all make mistakes and I've seen some horrific driving (and sat next to some too) but it has to be a real howler to cause the kind of accident the NSX had. What happens is people get used to ragging, say, a 350Z on road or track and getting away with murder as most modern cars are rediculously forgiving. They then get into a more focussed machine and find out the hard way they've been getting it wrong all this time.

You need to know what's wrong and what's right. Making an error in doing the right thing is usually correctable, usually the offs occur when there's a total failure of technique and a lack of appreciation of the consequences of certain actions. Looking at the pictures I'd put money on the fact that the error made was entering the corner too slow, accelerating to the apex to compensate (DON'T DO THIS) and lifting off when the car inevitably started to understeer. It's then very easy to be taken by surprise, overcorrect and/or keep the opposite lock on too long which is why it tank-slapped off to the left. This is also the most common error on the road, misjudging a corner and having to lift.

I hate the term 'snap oversteer', what does it mean? What I think people are referring to is the violent oversteer reaction of a car resulting from some kind of provocation. You can't look at a car and say it has snap oversteer, you need to ask when. It could be on turn in, lift off, roll, power, anything. Once you indentify this you can make allowances.

To be honest, I'll bet most of us have had a car sliding on the road at some point, intentionally or unintentionally. If it's the latter that's worse in my book and so why would you be any less dangerous and at risk on the road than the track? We drive serious cars which require a greater degree of skill and knowledge than a hot hatch.

My solution? Get an instructor, book an airfield day or go to Silverstone/Bedford and learn safely how to handle your/a car at the limit and what actions create what consequences. You may chose never to use your skills on road or track but if you do they'll be there and it won't be a surprise. And I don't care what anyone says, everyone has the potential to be at least quick and capable.

I'm only saying all this because it would be a great shame for people to be put off using such fabulous cars in their more natural environment

[Paul C]

I go to Castle Combe a few times a year going to their action tack days as well

as the club lotus one. Have seen a few wrecks come back on the truck, one Lotus

11 replica smashed up by a BMW Z4, a few cars with minor damage, and a nasty

rear end smash Esprit GT3 on one rainy CL track day (this car got repaired). But

thats the only Esprit i remember in 8 years.

Rain plays a part in most of the damage i've seen, the CL day there is always end

of may and there has been rain many times in the 8 years i've been going.

I spent nearly