Esprit S2 - Restomod

[Fridge]

I think it's more than that @Burg57. Cars without CANBus have been reliable for years.

I was expecting an EFi/throttle body application at the very least.

[Djs44]

On 15/05/2021 at 13:13, Fridge said:

I think it's more than that @Burg57. Cars without CANBus have been reliable for years.

I was expecting an EFi/throttle body application at the very least.

David 

I have to fit a new loom whatever I do as the original wasn't re-useable . My car will have mapped ignition with carbs , not sure that makes any difference . I think that wiring is fine normally but switches are probably the weak link - also things like the headlight etc stalks that take the full load of what they have to drive . 

I have negative experience of CAN bus - I have an e46 m3 that I jump started and then took it to 3 different experts to sort it out all the warning lights and the lack of any other lights ( indicators, brake lights , you name it ) . 

But as I have to have the car re-wired I'm interested. 

[Barrykearley]

Can bus is great for stuff like weigh bridges and silo weighing - but frankly to do a few lights on a car it’s simply bonkers to retro fit. The benefit with new cars is you can reduce the wiring loom complexity massively by just having 4 wires going to the back and front and decoding from there.

[Fridge]

I would have to say, Barry is probably right. The problems with the basic S1/S2 loom can be muchly improved with the addition of a few much needed and easily and cheaply made relays circuits. As fitted to the S3 and Turbo Esprit.

If however, you were going to deploy my top secret Q Branch development, then I'd be all over CANBus as it would make my life so much easier.

If you're having the carbs "mapped" then I assume you're fitting an ECU? Sorry, my knowledge bottoms out here. The Lister XJS in Harry Metcalf's CJ Coupe V12 engine video had such as system I think, but linked to direct fuel injection.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Fridge

[Djs44]

@barry - mutiplexing and CAN bus are 2 different things . With CAN bus you still have wires to every switch etc they just don't take the full current required for what they switch ( so effectively the CAN bus does the " relay " work ) . Is that correct ? 

The Lotusbits system includes a keypad that allows switching even if the switches fail . All hidden of course. 

@fridge - the ignition will be mapped ( ECU) , not the carbs - so you have more flexibilty than just what a distributor can do . I think . 

[Fridge]

From my very limited knowledge of CANBus it is inherently multiplexed as it communicates to a number of devices often over a twisted pair of cables. Yet it doesn't appear to be reliant on an overall system clock for synchronisation (I'm digging deep into my computer communications background here). The CANBus relies on each device on the network having a unique code, and serial data packets that correspond to specifically identifed instructions. It therefore has at least 3 forms of built in fault tolerance it seems. To overcome its lack of syncronising system clock I assume. Quite interesting stuff.

A CANBus does indeed control transistorised relays as you sort of described.

I'm still trying to figure out how this is to be implemented by LotusBits, as reverse (or perhaps forward) engineering this into a G-Esprit would seem overkill unless its benefits could be utilised across the whole vehicle. Even then the G-Esprit isn't exactly overrun with a heap load of gadgets to control.

Perhaps it's some sort of limited CANBus, a bit like a high speed LINBus, purely for the purposes of engine management?

I think @jonroberts discussed ignition mapping in a thread some time ago, but via a Luminition style electronics. Way above head, but sounds similar, but by a simpler method.

@Djs44 have you commited to this wizardry?

 

[Djs44]

David 

Not committed , waiting for a cost . Mike's rally car has been fitted with it - in this case no switches required as can program the key pad as required . He's also doing an s3 . 

I'll wait and see , but costs with standing , can't see any downsides ??

 

[Fridge]

1 hour ago, Djs44 said:

David 

Not committed , waiting for a cost . Mike's rally car has been fitted with it - in this case no switches required as can program the key pad as required . He's also doing an s3 . 

I'll wait and see , but costs with standing , can't see any downsides ??

 

The risks are the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns.

As I said, if you're doing something really fancy, that may include engine mapping (which I nothing about) then you'll probably need to go down this route. Otherwise the short comings of the early series electrics can be done with simple relay modifications for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Djs44]

Engine mapping ( fuel if injection  and ignition ) just needs an ecu doesn't it ? and a few feeds from throttle position , engine temp etc into the ECU ? 

CAN bus - what could possibly go wrong  

 

[Fridge]

I'm not sure, but I expect it does. They seem to implement a mini-loom/CANBus, or  perhaps a fast LINBus as I mentioned earlier just for that purpose.  With a programmable ECU. Not fit the whole car with a CANBus. That's a big task to retrofit I'd imagine, but little benefit as far as I can see. Though it would make my life a lot easier currently.

Which is why I asked about 300 posts ago, but I'm still no wiser as to what Mike is planning.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Fridge

[Djs44]

I think I’ll leave it there . 

[Bibs]

[Suddabym]

How cool is that?

(pretty cool) 😁

[RobinB5]

TLF members hogging the front pages of Absolute Lotus magazine, it needs to be a thing

 

[Suddabym]

So, I've made up a page for the Esprit on a new website I'm developing for my other stuff, and thought I'd share the link.

https://www.markjsuddaby.com/plus-also/

What with the magazine article, it feels like there's more of a story to tell.

For anyone interested, there are a few more shots of the car, but I don't go into grinding resto detail, as this was much more a destination than a journey project.

[drdoom]

So where did the rearview camera get situated? How's the image?

[Suddabym]

Right there - centre of the rear bumper.

[drdoom]

. . . .  and how do you find the image matches your needs/expectations?

Cheers

[Suddabym]

Oh, I get you now - image, right. So, they’re not great. Mirrors are still better. But it has two uses. Right up close when backing right up to something, and then kinda looking around the corner, say when reversing out of a parking space, or onto a road, where you can see approaching cars and hold off. With the car so low, you’ve little peripheral vision, so it does help there. 

[JustinB]

Just read this thread start to finish. Absolutely flabbergasted. An S2 in this color is my dream car. Amazing work, Mark. Enjoy!

[Suddabym]

Thanks, dude. I do my best 😃

new thing, in development

[Fridge]

17 hours ago, Suddabym said:

Thanks, dude. I do my best 😃

new thing, in development

I can see the direction you're taking with this.

[Suddabym]

design complete, ready for printing 🙂

[Fridge]

7 minutes ago, Suddabym said:

design complete, ready for printing 🙂

Worthy of Q himself.

It is the the new auditorium layout for the Lotus Museum isn't it?

[Suddabym]

Oh, yeah!