Brexit

[Barrykearley]

Best way is to cancel the BBC licence. Hundreds of thousands of households have 👍

[SFO]

EU Health Commissioner now demanding AZ divert supplies produced in and for UK, to EU. EU Health Commissioner insists that AZ honours its contracts, except AZ's contract with the UK!

Simultaneously, she says AZ is wrong when AZ says that their contract is "non binding". A complete mischaracterisation worthy of Trump, because AZ never said that their contract was not binding. AZ clarified that it promised to use "best efforts" to deliver, instead of "will" deliver. Both are equally binding; the latter, no ifs and no buts; the former, ifs and buts possible.

UK's AZ contract is also "best efforts" but we have had more time to ramp up production because we started 3 months earlier.

EU Health Commissioner is really not covering herself in glory. This exposes very clearly for me, that EU Commissioners are not always appointed on merit; but on political horse trading.

Fortunately, we are longer bound to listen to these unelected Eurocrats.

[PaulCP]

They’ve screwed up and now need to find someone outside of the EU to blame.

Not only did they dither over signing the contract in the first place they’ve still not approved the vaccine. Why would AZ  produce and build up stocks when there’s no guarantee that their product will be approved. Add to this that the production problems are with 2 EU manufacturing plants!

The hold up in the EU is a clear case of individuals in the EU having to prove that they are important by ensuring that they get some attention 

It doesn’t matter though, the EU 27 are apparently united in their approach🤔

[Doug Ashley]

Can anyone explain how things are now better for the UK, now that Brexit has actually happened?

I see lots of 'it's not as bad as it could have been', or 'this particular fear hasn't materialised', but there are seemingly no benefits to offset what we have lost.  Anything to help my level of optimism is appreciated.

Has anyone ordered parts from Europe this month?  I am considering some from Germany, but there are many stories of extra charges and transporters/suppliers just not bothering with the UK any more.

[C8RKH]

Well. The UK on its own has just got on with the vaccination programme and vaccinated far more people than the whole of Europe - that's better

The UK has been free to put in its own support packages for workers and businesses that have largely been well received where EU has dithered, argued and delayed - that's better

The UK managed to act early and decisively to "secure" sufficient supplies of vaccine as required - that's better

The UK is now able to seek and negotiate trade deals with ANY country it wishes outside of the control of the EU - we have the ability to better direct our future trading options - that's better

The issue of the parts is a "political" one as the facts are not really being reported correctly. Even on here we have had "business owners" who trade with Europe saying they had to make some changes, but they were able to, and all is good. The key thing is that EU had decided to change the way it was going to collect VAT - as usual, the UK just got on with it and has implemented it to the original timescales mandated by the EU. However, due to Brexit, the EU decided to "delay" their implmentation  - hence the issues and confusion. Once the EU goes live, then all those whinging cycling suppliers in Europe will be truly fecked as they will have to do the same as they are now being asked to do for the UK with EVERY other country that is not in the EU!!!  Go figure.

 

The upshot is we will only truly know the outcome of Brexit in 3, 5, 7 maybe even 10 years. But of course, everyone just wants a definitive verdict now!

[pete]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/don-t-cut-me-off-sturgeon-loses-it-as-bbc-s-marr-savages-snp-boss-over-vaccine-shame/ar-BB1d2VZB?ocid=msedgntp&ocid=ob-fb-engb-1511253547831

[Doug Ashley]

9 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Well. The UK on its own has just got on with the vaccination programme and vaccinated far more people than the whole of Europe - that's better

The UK has been free to put in its own support packages for workers and businesses that have largely been well received where EU has dithered, argued and delayed - that's better

The UK managed to act early and decisively to "secure" sufficient supplies of vaccine as required - that's better

These happened while we were still subject to EU rules last year, and would have happened with/without Brexit.

The urgency of the vaccine rollout is sadly necessary due to us having the least control over the disease.  Many nations took control of their borders early on, while we are only just now deciding how to close the stable door.

10 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The UK is now able to seek and negotiate trade deals with ANY country it wishes outside of the control of the EU - we have the ability to better direct our future trading options - that's better

We have negotiated a number of deals which only replicate what we already had through the EU.  In return we can no longer have a say in how one of the three large global trading blocs is run.  Trade deals with geographic neighbours are also far more important than others, and the nearest neighbour outside of the EU/EFTA/single market etc. is thousands of miles away.

14 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The upshot is we will only truly know the outcome of Brexit in 3, 5, 7 maybe even 10 years. But of course, everyone just wants a definitive verdict now!

Yes, the issue is I can see a number of immediate downsides, but the potential upside is a blur in the distance.

On the parts supply question I'm tempted just to order something as an experiment 😄

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, Doug Ashley said:

These happened while we were still subject to EU rules last year, and would have happened with/without Brexit.

Probably not as the eu haven’t approved the one vaccine we are using a lot of. Had we still been a member of the club - they would have ensured we wouldn’t access it.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Barrykearley

[C8RKH]

Yup. I believe Doug is just laying down some bait. After all this time it still happens. Hey ho..

However @Doug Ashley, order away and let us know your experience. I haven't changed anything, including ordering online, and nothing so far has changed for me. Maybe I am just special

[Barrykearley]

Yeah yous special alright @C8RKH. I’ve been worried everyday about the lack of electricity and food since brexit. It would seem the doomsday predictions have been completely incorrect. Oh and we are flourishing in comparison to the eu in so many ways
 

who would have thought.....

[mg4lotus]

The special one? hasn't that been used before? 

The fact is we have now left the EU and it is down to us to make the best of it. As long as the idiots in government don't f.. mess it up we can make it work.

[Doug Ashley]

I believe I'm laying down facts rather than bait. We used an emergency procedure existing in EU law.

https://www.bbc.com/news/5516373

[C8RKH]

These are the people who want to fcuk us! Even after Brexit they want to "control" us and "punish" us.  Any time anyone wants to go back - just remember. Also, remember how they screwed over Italy at the start of this?  Yup. The EU, a great institution just bursting with good will.

 

THE EU has ordered AstraZeneca to start diverting lifesaving vaccines from British factories to Europe - risking a squeeze on NHS supplies and a major row with No 10.

Brussels' health chief told the drugs giant it must begin sending jabs from its two plants in Oxfordshire and Staffordshire to the continent or risk financial and legal penalties.

Brussels insists AstraZeneca must meet the supply shortfall from UK vaccine supplies, meaning the EU is demanding up to 75 million jabs from British factories. 

In an extraordinary outburst EU health boss Stella Kyriakides accused the Anglo-Swedish firm of breaching its contract with the bloc by trying to keep the UK's supply chain separate to that of the rest of Europe.

During crisis talks tonight she will push the firm to fill the continent's shortfall of up to 49 million doses by dipping into British production lines.

And EU officials have even vowed to trawl through export data to root out any shipments of vaccines the company may have sent to the UK as their row with it grows increasingly bitter.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Doug Ashley said:

I believe I'm laying down facts rather than bait

Yes and no. I'm a wind up merchant and I know what I'm doing. I believe you're the same.    You fished for the reaction, you got it. All good.

[Barrykearley]

They keep spouting about the spirit of a contract.... ummm jog on. We have heard all this pishe from the eu unelected elite before. Maybe they should just crack on.

[mg4lotus]

Is the head office of AZ in the UK?

Is AZ listed on the London stock exchange?

Maybe the government should nationalise it. And in the spirit of Entente Cordiale perhaps Boris should tell the EU to do one.

I am, of course, only joking.

[Chillidoggy]

Someone asked about ordering parts from the EU?

I’ve had four sizeable parts consignments arrive from Germany since Brexit. All of them have been fulfilled, none of them have been delayed. The suppliers seem to be the same as before, I haven’t noticed any difference.

Freight to the US continues to be an astonishingly fast overnight service.

The only issue I’ve had is with the Swedish postal service, PostNord, who managed to take nearly 6 weeks to deliver a small package to a guy who lives somewhere near Stockholm. And while it was in Customs, instead of calling him, or emailing him (they had those details) to say there was duty to be paid, PostNord actually sent him a letter instead, which took a week to arrive.

[C8RKH]

stop it @Chillidoggy - you are spreading treasonable and maleficent messages there. We all know that as a result of Brexit trade with the EU is now impossibly hard to do

There is so much political BS around this it is unreal. 

Yes it is harder. However, if people take the time to understand what the changes are, and what needs to be done, on both sides, then it can happen easily.

Yes it was made harder by the "deal" being last minute and us only having 24/48 hours to respond. Shit happens. But the response from some of the European companies (mostly small suppliers in the B2C space) has just been nonsensical especially when you realise that these VAT changes for them, will apply to all future trade they do with people outside of the EU. Brexit is just the fall guy, the actual legislation came from the EU!  

[Chillidoggy]

100% true, and my own experience, nothing treasonable or maleficent in my post. I fail to see why traders in the EU would be any less inclined to deal with clients in the UK, aside from any red tape. Also unchanged is the need to sell their goods in order to prosper, same as it is here. If the EU (or indeed the UK) puts restrictive and heavy-handed beaurucracy in the way, then no-one wins.

[SFO]

1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

Someone asked about ordering parts from the EU?

I’ve had four sizeable parts consignments arrive from Germany since Brexit. All of them have been fulfilled, none of them have been delayed. The suppliers seem to be the same as before, I haven’t noticed any difference.

Freight to the US continues to be an astonishingly fast overnight service.

The only issue I’ve had is with the Swedish postal service, PostNord, who managed to take nearly 6 weeks to deliver a small package to a guy who lives somewhere near Stockholm. And while it was in Customs, instead of calling him, or emailing him (they had those details) to say there was duty to be paid, PostNord actually sent him a letter instead, which took a week to arrive.

Good to hear real life experience rather than the nonsense from the press 👏

[C8RKH]

On 27/01/2021 at 18:24, Doug Ashley said:

Can anyone explain how things are now better for the UK, now that Brexit has actually happened?

Couldn't resist  Excerpt from the Mail (I know, I know). This is better.

 

Boris has blundered his way through this crisis - but his decision to invest in four different vaccines, ordering over 200 million doses to protect Brits against Covid-19 was a masterstroke. But the story across Europe is very different. Contrast our detailed vaccine plan and steady rollout (even with local hiccups and shortages in supply) with the bumbling bureaucracy within the EU.

 

France - the home of the great micro-biologist Louis Pasteur - has failed to produce a single home-grown vaccine, much to the embarrassment of President Macron.

Across Europe, there is not a single vaccination plan to rival that of the UK, and now the battle for access to supplies to really starting to get nasty.

As cases soar in Belgium and Portugal, for example, their governments have only ordered 213,000 and 263,000 doses of vaccine. How could they have misjudged the need so badly?

 

Last year, the UK decided not to to join the EU procurement scheme. There was a lot of Remainer-type tut-tutting at the time but it turns out to have been possibly the single most brilliant decision Boris has made since this crisis began.

Instead he set up the UK Vaccines Taskforce, led by former financier Kate Bingham - who then invested millions in the research and development of the Oxford/AstraZeneca Vaccine and many others, hedging our bets over which would get past the post first.

While the EU dithered, the UK put it's money on the table and was the first country to approve a vaccine last December - developed by Pfizer/BioNtech, and since then three more have been tested and approved, with a fourth - Novavax, likely to be approved imminently.

Now, the EU is reduced to squabbling over access to vaccines which the UK has already paid for.

[Colin P]

@C8RKH  I enjoyed that earlier whilst searching for Boris’ response to the EU. Just a shame about who the author is. 
 

It’s about time Boris responded. 

[100th_Idiot]

I listened to the woman who set up the vaccine task force and in this aspect I think the UK has done very well. This is on Radio 4 this morning.

There was a strategy here. We are not the biggest market or have the biggest wallet but we can be adaptive and move fast.

So we very rapidly set up vaccine test volunteer register and got 400K people.

Also helped vaccine manufacturers invest early at risk in production facilities (purchase equipment, secure loans etc). Hence the best manufacturing is here at the moment.

Net result is we managed to finish phase 3 trials before the US had started phase 1.

Well played.

[SFO]

The Vaccine Task Force is something we can be very proud of.

Even if we were still in the EU, we could have done what we have done on vaccines. 

I voted remain, but now, more than ever, I am certain that the great British public made the right choice in June 2016.

 

[Barrykearley]

On 29/01/2021 at 23:31, SFO said:

Even if we were still in the EU, we could have done what we have done on vaccines

I Could agree. However the EU commission have been very heavy handed with many EU nations on this matter and from what I have seen they have done everything in their power to centralise and neutralise countries from embarking on doing so. Hungary have broken ranks and ordered some of their own supplies now - I’d expect others to follow. The triggering of article 16 has made the EU commission look stupid and petty - the UK response which has been very muted indeed has amplified just how bad the EU look.

One thing is for sure - the Governments response to vaccine development has been first class. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Barrykearley

[mdw]

6 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

 

One thing is for sure - the Governments response to vaccine development has been first class. 

Having just had the first dose at Maidstone Hospital it was very well organised and a credit to all those running and taking part in it.   Something we should be proud of.    We bitch and moan alot in this country but we are able when we need to to get our s**t together.      The person who got on the ball with ordering the jabs early deserves credit as well.