Brexit

[Advantage]

Haggis is an English invention. But black pudding was preferred so Haggis was exported north of the Wall and they took it their hearts. (And arteries.) Tax on such delicacies should return to Westminster.

[C8RKH]

I think this is a case of beware what you preach and cake and eat it.

I'd like to see May show some steel here with:

An immediate review of Faslane with a view to moving the base to England "in line with the wishes of the SNP". It should be made clear that NO funding would come from Westminster to pay for any jobs lost, repurposing of the facility etc as this is a local request and decision. In fact, Holyrood should be forced to contribute to the costs from their current budget as they have requested it. Don't see why everyone else should pay for Scottish politicians sensibilities. I'm sure they will find much to whinge about and as a resident of Scotland the bill will hit my services, but then so it should. 

I can't see how May could lose here. Westminster PM listening and acting on the will of the Scottish Parliament plays to her agenda and chops Sturgeon off at the knees as it shows that where there is an incremental cost to the UK it will not be funded totally by the centre in Westminster. Sets a nice precedent for any independence future discussions too.

I'm rapidly forming a view that rest of UK should have a referendum on keeping Scotland. I think the Scottish Parliament might be shocked by the result and it might just kill some of the arrogance that the Nats display, and with the majority of the rUK possibly wanting rid the subsequent divorce negotiation may not be as generous as they think. I always thought Salmond was hugely arrogant and optimistic in his view of the settlement negotiations being hugely beneficial to Scotland in Indyref1.

[Chillidoggy]

There's absolutely no sense in us moving the Trident subs to England from Scotland. I mean, you never know if anything nuclear might go bang accidentally, do you?

[basalte]

One above view of the (ever-optimistic) C8RKH I totally agree with - let`s certainly prefigure Scots independence - take our weapons of mass destruction away from Faslane unilaterally and relocate them in England.  

31 Billion quid to be spent on their defence and they want none of it, the ungrateful (insert non-PC term here) !

C8RKHs suggestion sure would be a matter of principle over money-something quite rare and welcome in politics.

They get one bonus , Faslane will stop being a nuclear target and therefore their wee bairns will escape being burnt alive in their incinerated parents` arms if and  when La May presses the button.  

Trident is a an English matter for the English nation. For the sake of balance (listening BBC ? Thought not...) I must however point out that many MPs and Lords benefit financially from the industries involved in its retention. Barclays RBS and HSBC help finance the Russian Vnesheconombank`s financing of their Dolgorukiy nuclear submarine programme

-ooooh, anyone would think there`s more to this one than meets the eye !

I am however personally pleased that those well-known tree huggin` hippy do-gooders Field Marshal Lord Bramall, Field Marshal Lord Ramsbotham, Major General Patrick Cordingley  the late Field Marshal Lord Carver and former Defence Secretary Michael Portillo all think Trident is a colossal waste of money. But what do the military experts know?     

[C8RKH]

We won't be taking them away unilaterally - they are ASKING us to take them away. Big difference and why I would expect the Scottish Government to pay / contribute.

All I am saying is that is fine, but don't think it will not have any consequences and DON'T blame the rUK for the decision or the consequences of what you asked for and don't think of expecting the rUK to foot the whole bill. I personally think that is a very fair approach. Not that the SNP would really know what a fair approach was.

If May presses the button, I'd rather be beside the target and oblivious when it goes boom, to being many miles away and getting partially fried and then slowly dying through hunger / radiation sickness. Taking the optimistic view again

Of course, if we vote Corbyn to become PM then it really all is a waste of money as he has already made it redundant by saying he will not not use it. Biggest betrayal of our national defence ever, in my humble opinion.

We should move Trident to Hull / Grimsby. Plenty of good people there who would love well paying, skilled, jobs and I dare say many of them who work there may even have a "Scottish Accent" as there is bloody all else in Faslane to keep them working.

Of course, once we do this, and the SNP make hay over the cost/job losses and stir up nationalism again we need to have ensured that we have already cancelled the Royal Naval contracts on the Clyde and Rosyth and transferred that work to Portsmouth too. That'll stir it all up even more. After all, an independent Scotland will need to use those facilities to build her own Navy and coastal defence ships in preparation for / post independence. And of course, Post-Brexit, with the foretold doom and gloom and crash in our economy and the value of the pound we could not afford to pay for them to build OUR ships with our devalued pound against their Euro's.

Jeez, I'm glad my glass is always half full.

[Andyww]

Slightly off topic but just watched the 1 O clock news on the BBC. 

It appears they had a bit of a problem with the axe attack in Germany and having to report it. What they ended up doing was re-reporting yesterdays lead story about the Russian doping scandal and strung it out for 10 minutes, then spent 1 minute on the attack stating that only 4 people were slightly injured. This is a far lower figure than any other news source. They mentioned the attacker was Afghan but stated "this type of attack is very rare in Germany". Well thats alright then.

Edit: In the interest of accuracy, the BBC news website does appear to have taken a different approach with the above as a lead story.

[Kimbers]

And he had an ISIS flag and was named by ISIS as one of their soldiers. I'm afraid you are going to start seeing a proliferation of these attacks.

In other news the BBC are still trying to protect their EU grant money to make programmes by pushing the remain agenda and reporting stuff not mentioned elsewhere or in small print:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36834743

 

[C8RKH]

Love this quote from one of the law firms trying to stop the democratic will of the people:

The judges heard that one of the law firms involved, Mishcon de Reya, had received letters of abuse which led to potential clients who had wanted to join the action withdrawing their names.

"It is racist abuse, it is anti-Semitic abuse and it is objectionable abuse," Lord Pannick QC, instructed by Mishcon, told the court.

So whilst I would never condone this sort of abuse and whilst it is something I would never want to see in the UK, the same lawyers though think it is OK for them, and not an abuse of democracy or objectionable abuse, to try to usurp or over turn the will of the majority in a democracy? Maybe I'm just a simpleton who is missing something here.

The reporting from the BBC has in my humble opinion been shameful. Everything Brexit has been portrayed in a negative light and so much for the BBC's previous rich history in being unbiased. Ever since around 2002 we have seen this unbiased view been slowly eroded away as spin takes over and becomes the fashion of the day. It is quite sad really as, for me, the BBC was one of those truly great British institutions.

[Barrykearley]

The bbc utterly stink - it's about time they were like dragged out in the street and sacked frankly. It's an utter disgrace and a misrepresentation of democracy.

in other news Angela eagle has now decided not to challenge Jezza for the title of leader of the loser party who represent no one but their own vested interests....oh sorry Labour Party 

This idea of a legal challenge to a democratic process - I'm afraid needs kicking into the long grass and fast. It's simply not the done thing - it's not British frankly. 

All the political parties need to unite and get us out in the wide world that is now our oyster. Stop talking down, stop trying to go backwards, stop the racist rhetoric and pish about semitism........ Let's get out there and be strong, sell our goods and services and leave the European Union to their path which only leads to self destruction.

oh - the Germans - they are being lied to massively about the problems they are having in their own country - you only need to look at social media to find the truth. And I'm afraid that the truth when it's being suppressed only leads to nasty outcomes others don't like come election day

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-36832619

im sure he will get more than a driver who kills someone whilst drunk........ The worlds going absolutely mad. This is bad yes - unacceptable yes - but crown court ??? Really ?? Is this my ignorance.

i despise the bbc - just about to delete it off my iPad now

[Iconic Ride]

5 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I'd rather be beside the target and oblivious when it goes boom, to being many miles away and getting partially fried and then slowly dying through hunger / radiation sickness.

Nukes, Subs, Doomsday. 

All intertwined with the idea of being "up close and personal" upon detonation vs. far far away (say, Australia), awaiting the inevitable spread of wind carried radiation.

Throw in a love interest, the restoration of an exotic racing car, and it has all the makings of a blockbuster novel. Oh, wait...

 

 

 

 

 

[C8RKH]

You had me all the way, until you said throw in the love interest. Damn. Spoilt every great western and war film I loved when a kid - they just always had to put a woman in as a bloody love interest to spoil it. Damn.....

[Iconic Ride]

[C8RKH]

Pah, they put piglet in that for Pooh's love interest didn't they?

Also, not enough violence / guns in there... Lol. I'm never happy. Just think - Top Gun without Kelly McGillis and Meg Ryan and we would have had another 37 minutes of watching F14's flying around in combat shooting at stuff. Bloody heaven...

Just to stay on topic I'm gonna blame that on Brexit or the EU film censors. Not decided which one yet.

[basalte]

On 28/06/2016 at 14:23, basalte said:

What is a more genuine "threat" to our leaving the EU is that it HAS NEVER BEEN OUR DECISION TO MAKE to take GB out of the EU. The legal constitutional position is absolutely clear.  If you voted Leave it will be our MPs who have the power to take Britain out of the EU. They will have to vote to repeal the Act OF 1972 taking us in . Parliament will be put to the vote probably after a new Tory leader has been elected.

Of course you may feel very angry at that state of affairs but there it is.

As far as I am aware a majority of MPs want us to stay in the EU. It is THEIR decision to leave or stay, not ours.

 

       

Don`t wanna say I told you and use up more thread space so but I told you so...the legal challenge to Brexit will be followed with interest.

[Barrykearley]

Legal challenge to democratic votes normally fail.

if MPs vote to go a different route to what the electorate have laid down - I'm not so sure we wouldn't see a huge swing to ukip or a yet to be established right wing party - we have a void that could open up and let this happen!!

[C8RKH]

A significant number of Labour MPs will vote with the Government and any motion on Brexit would be passed.

It would be political suicide in the UK for any party, other than the SNP, to go against the will of the majority. Of the SNP have the deciding vote and force remain, I think it would be the end of Scotland in tge Union. Maybe something they want anyway.

I don't believe that for a generation at least, any party who scuppered this would last. For Christ's sake, the same voters are still screaming about Maggie 30 years later.

However, we may yet see a turkey voting for christmas.

[Barrykearley]

Turkey is a Muslim country - can't see them voting for Christmas 

mass hanging of political objectors however ???

[Andyww]

Headline in the Guardian: 

IMF cuts UK growth forecasts following Brexit vote

Headline in the Mail:

IMF 'clowns' admit they got it wrong with Brexit doom and gloom warnings after saying the British economy will grow faster than Germany and France 

[Barrykearley]

[C8RKH]

So the headline is "IMF cuts growth forecast following Brexit vote" but the reality in the detail is that we're still going to do better than the stringest 2 EU economies, Germany and France!

Jeez. When are people going to wake up to this bullshit?

[Andyww]

Interesting that May is starting negotiations today not with the EU but with Merkel. Proof if proof were needed that Germany really runs the show.

Also the IMF have told Merkel to offer us a good deal. Actually I think she will, because she will be well aware of the pressure from German industry, especially the car makers. The last thing they want is us imposing reciprocal tariffs.

[Barrykearley]

Haha - the EU said no negotiations whatsoever until we trigger article 50.

To coin a phrase

the ladies not for turning - haha - what an utter joke this mess is. The eu monkeys are now scratching their ass's and trying to figure out how to stop it all falling apart

[C8RKH]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/691589/Britain-BOOMS-EU-vote-economy-economic-news-Brexit?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=recommendations&utm_term=paid&utm_content=dx-news-showbiz&utm_campaign=2016

[C8RKH]

Am I missing something here - President Hollande has said today   "Access to the single market cannot be guaranteed unless free movement of workers is respected."

Is this not just what we want? I.e. free movement of "workers" as opposed to "shirkers"?  So, if we agree that any one from the EU, who has a job confirmed, and the means to support themselves, can come here and be respected, we get access to the Single Market?  Wow. Job done. A result.

As that means we would not have to house them, their families or pay them benefits etc when they arrive, as, they would have a job and be able to support themselves.  OK. I'm stupid. What am I missing?

[Barrykearley]

Reckon it's the eu clowns starting to take notice !!

lets hit that exit button in a few months and get the hell out.