Brexit

[C8RKH]

She's all gone very quiet hasn't she.

I do think it is wrong however the threats she got. Bloody terrible really and I don't want to live in a society that thinks it is OK to threaten to kill, rape or whatever another person just because they have a different PoV. People who think that sort of behaviour is OK should be locked away for a very long time.

I think she was naive at best to NOT think she would not get some abuse. I also do not believe her reasons for doing it. Another wealthy financier type with the finger in the sh!t pile and protecting a very privileged way of life is my humble opinion.

[pete]

On 28/01/2017 at 10:37, C8RKH said:

 

However, it's not just local authorities. Why is it OK for someone to join the police/fire service and then around 33 years later retire with a generous lump sum and a gilt edged pension at 55 when the rest of us are expected to work till we are 68/69. Presumably we need to work those extra 14 years to pay for the generous lump sums and pensions of those police/fire service people?  Sits back and waits for the usual retort - you can't expect a 65 year old to climb a ladder with a hose or chase a robber down the street comment....  

 

have never understood why instead of retiring them early they don`t just give them one of the desk jobs until they are at a normal retirement age.

[silverfrost]

Send her to the Tower 

[silverfrost]

16 minutes ago, pete said:

have never understood why instead of retiring them early they don`t just give them one of the desk jobs until they are at a normal retirement age.

The problem is the numbers that would build up, any service from the Police, Fire ,and our Armed forces have been built up over the years as a very high turn over in terms of manpower i.e new troops replacing old troops etc,  The problem is actually finding these postions for people once they reach that age,  it would simply be a case of too many people to fill to few postions imo.

 

 

[C8RKH]

41 minutes ago, pete said:

have never understood why instead of retiring them early they don`t just give them one of the desk jobs until they are at a normal retirement age.

Exactly - spot on Pete. They could be "team leaders" to and mentor younger people who could then do the running etc...

I get the numbers would be an issue Dan, but there is no reason for them to get gilt edge pensions at such an early age when the rest of us are expected to work until we are 67/69 these days.  The pension should only kick in when they are older so like the rest of us they need to find a way to support themselves....

[march]

40 minutes ago, pete said:

have never understood why instead of retiring them early they don`t just give them one of the desk jobs until they are at a normal retirement age.

That's an easy one to answer Pete, the 'desk jobs' as you put it are now filled by private companies. Twenty years ago the desk jobs were where ageing fire fighters, armed forces, civil servants went. Unfortunately this was not a good solution as many civil servants took these posts as wind down jobs prior to taking their pension (expensive). I was involved at an early stage of this shift from public to private, in a company who took over facilities management, training and IT responsibilities for some areas of the Armed forces. We had to take on civil servants initially (TUPE) and I have to say very few were of a calibre that could produce results for the role they were supposed to be in (I was in the IT branch of this company).

We were cheap (very cheap in reality) compared to civil servants running the post and we were far more productive. We saved the government lots of money basically. Unfortunately as time has progressed this model has become ingrained into civil service practices and companies (who are far better at contract writing than the civil service ever have been) are now milking the system and making fortunes from these contracts (no flexibility in requirements is a biggy - or in other words not in the contract so you will have to pay extra) . I also believe this model has allowed senior civil servants to divest themselves of the responsibility of meeting their responsibilities (not my fault, I blame the contractor etc..) - have seen this first hand with the Police and it becomes very wasteful.

Don't get me wrong I am not against civil servants (well may be a bit against arse covering, time wasting, money wasting senior civil servants) and have employed ex-civil servants who have become some of the best people I have known but in this time of ever tightening budgets a desk job for someone who is just getting on bit is not sustainable.

An example - when I started in this area, if a civil servant came along who could spell COMPUTER and wanted to be in IT - he was made an IT Manager.

[Kimbers]

On 28/01/2017 at 10:37, C8RKH said:

However, it's not just local authorities. Why is it OK for someone to join the police/fire service and then around 33 years later retire with a generous lump sum and a gilt edged pension at 55 when the rest of us are expected to work till we are 68/69. Presumably we need to work those extra 14 years to pay for the generous lump sums and pensions of those police/fire service people?  Sits back and waits for the usual retort - you can't expect a 65 year old to climb a ladder with a hose or chase a robber down the street comment....  

 

Oh god, I normally agree with you but on this one you are wrong. Firstly, like Nurses, Police have had their pensions cut (non final salary any more) and they are actually being forced to retire by the Govt when they don't want to, as part of Govt cuts. Then Young 20-25 year olds are being taken on at half the money and expected to do the same job as someone with 25 years experience. Secondly, when you are young everything is easy, but Police work involves an awful lot of physical activity. It's not just running around on Blues and Twos. When you get there you have to deal with the mass Brawl and this often ends in having to lay on hands. Whilst age is a benefit when it comes to talking to people, believe me when I say that there is no way a Police Officer can do his job properly, protecting his partner, much past 60. Infact the Fitness test you have to pass every year is pretty difficult past 55. Add in that you have Shift work which I know gets harder as you get older (2 earlies, 2 lates, 2 nights and up to 14 hour shifts) and you are pretty much ready to retire after 50, believe me.

And all this for a huge salary (in my area) of a MAXIMUM of £35,000 per annum (and not till after up to 10 years service). Starting is £20k (and local Govt is looking to cut that to £18500) add in that out of 2000 active Officers in Norfolk there were over 450 serious assaults meaning time off or hospitalisation (Just last month one of my friends had his Jaw broken) Hundreds more that resulted in black eyes, cuts and bruises and you pretty much have to say that the only thing Police Officers have to look forward to is a half decent Pension when they retire!

FML, what do you expect from 30 years of Public Service, putting themselves in harms way so you sleep well at night. their family not knowing of they are coming home or going to see them in the Hospital. Would you go to work every day knowing there is a massive chance you will be assaulted and a good chance you will be injured? And for that measily £20k starting wage they have to deal with the scum of the earth, drunk yobs, abusive domestic situations. Men with Knives, drugs, dead bodies, CPR, suicides, fights, missing children, sexual offences, drunk Drivers who have just killed someone or crashed and injured themselves, idiots on mobile phones while driving, holding someones hand as they pass as you are the only person there. the list goes on. Sod the pension, these guys and girls should be on double what they are and even then they would be underpaid!

................................. Thats my opinion.

[C8RKH]

So are you saying it is only people in the services (police, army, fire whatever) who have physically demanding work that knackers out their bodies by the time they are 50 or 55.  What about other poor sods in factories, building, and other trades who don't even earn £20k a year and have frig all pension, let alone a nice silver lined one?

I know there are huge generalisations, but a life time Police Sergeant near me miraculously got promoted to inspector 12 months before he retired at 55 - even his colleagues were a bit "wtf". Walked out the door with a six figure sum and a lovely pension. Walked straight into a desk job with Border Control, earning another publically funded salary and building another publically funded pension pot. let's not talk about the Police who "retired" to cushdy numbers in the Probation Service etc etc.

Yes, i know every case does not make the rule. But there have been some real dodgy deals in the past and it seems quite easy in the public sector.

Do I value what they do. Hell yes. Do I think they should be paid more. Hell yes. But it's hardly going to get better  now that they have decided you need to be grad to be a plod. Christ, grads are bad enough in th private sector walking in at 21 with an MBA in dossing around and protesting and thinking they should be the CEO in 4 years. Jeez, 5 years from now they'll all be demanding to be Chief Inspectors and getting their mummies to complain about why they aren't.

I don't have the answers, but under the previous system some of these guys and girls did very very well thank you very much.

[pete]

 sorry Kimbers i can`t agree with you on this,would have more sympathy if when they retired they actually did 'retire' but seems most of them find another job so obviously not that worn out.Builders,Miners,Farmers even HGV drivers have statistically far more dangerous jobs than the police so their families are more likely not to see them come home from work and over a much longer period of time so should they be allowed to retire at 55 on a state sponsored pension

[Chillidoggy]

Why do they take on civilian staff to do police admin work, when surely aging police officers would be far better placed to do it, thereby freeing up some of the front line officers to attend Kimbers' aforementioned brawls?

[C8RKH]

I thought those brawls were an internal affair, you know, when the copper on nights dealing with the scrotes realises that the copper in traffic, on days in his pimpy X5 traffic car, was actually servicing his missus?  Well, that's how it seems in the cop films I watch anyway...

[Chillidoggy]

I do remember the case of one copper, who was bonking someone's missus whilst on night shift. In order to make it look like he'd been out and about on the roads, he used to put his squad car in her garage, prop it on bricks, and leave it running in gear so as to rack up some miles on the clock while he got his end away.

Trouble was, one night it slipped off the bricks, and went through the end wall of the garage.

[silverfrost]

The Police do look after their own though and they are well protected,  look at that case a few years ago of the Armed response officer, left his partner in the squad car, having it off with some lass in her house,  Someone found out, he was suspended but later brought back without been dismissed as the enquiy found he still had his firearm holsted around his ankles while he on the job in bed with the lass !  

You have to hand it to them, they do look after their own, anyone else would of been sacked straight away with zero pension 

[Chillidoggy]

The EU has told Queen Nich that an independant Scotland will have to get in the queue to join up. Pretty much scuppered it, then.

[theelanman]

[C8RKH]

Just wait, she'll be on the telly tonight blaming Westminster and the English for something the EU has said. 

[PaulCP]

and making it very clear that she's doing all this for herself, oops,  I mean the Scottish people

[theelanman]

Don't forget to blame the tories in particular........as its definitely all their fault that the SNP spending and budgets don't work

not that fact that theyre spending cash they ainit got........

[Kimbers]

From the man who lied to you, murdered 200,000 people and got away with it, who bought 24 flats in Manchester after being thrown out of Government and now relies on multi millions from the EU, comes "Rise up against a legal referendum and over turn it as a minority!" Profiteering, sell your soul, money grabbing, lying piece of crap!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179

[C8RKH]

This is today's quote from Tony Blair: " Speaking in the City of London, the former prime minister claimed that people voted in the referendum "without knowledge of the true terms of Brexit".

I find it incredible that he is able to spout anything and people, especially the press, actual listen and report on it.

Maybe we should all tweet him and remind him that he sent hundreds of British service men and women to their deaths, and has been responsible for causing tens of thousands of local deaths, since he sent in the troops in the middle east "without knowledge of the true facts about WMD".  I really do think it is about time this man bowed his head in shame and found a rather large cave to go and lose himself in (being Blair it will be a gilt walled covered cave) for the rest of his life. I do not know who he believes he speaks for, other than for his own self gratification and self important goals. He certainly does not speak for me.  In fact maybe him and that bloody awful publicity seeking, apology, making, Lily Allan could hole up in the same cave. .

[basalte]

I knew you or Barry might beat me to it when  it comes to Tory Blur...... sorry, Tony Blair ...and his comments which take irony to new heights....

But your comment on "I`m Prime Minister I`m Prime Minister !" (puerile shouts of joy on hearing he got the post)  Bliar gets my 100% agreement  !

As for your dig at Lily Allen at least she`s not a politician with the power to send thousands to their deaths (sorry-millions if you press the Button) starve thousands by cutting their benefits and have the Press at her beck and call to spread fake news about Weapons of Mass Destruction. Self-important celebs are an irritant not a danger.

[silverfrost]

Tony Blair is just a rat, anyone with a face like that with his smug grin can not be trusted, I would not trust him even i did not know him, he is just pure slime along with that other fat useless good for nothing toad he was in partnership with Mr Brown, quite an apt name for him also as he is another one that speaks out of his backside, but at least he retreated to cave and has not been seen since. 

Regarding Lily Allen,  She needs to shut her mush, she is famous and her views can be passed onto other people with less inteligence than her, that is the worrying thing,  just another little gobshxxe that was born with a silver spoon in her mouth and thinks she knows real life, She could not even spell the word hardship or hostile, let alone know what its like to have the human trash dumped on your doorstep that have little respect for ways or customs.  

[Kimbers]

1 hour ago, basalte said:

As for your dig at Lily Allen at least she`s not a politician with the power to send thousands to their deaths (sorry-millions if you press the Button) starve thousands by cutting their benefits and have the Press at her beck and call to spread fake news about Weapons of Mass Destruction. Self-important celebs are an irritant not a danger.

 I love Lily Allen, love her music and for many years had a "thing" for her. However I find it Easy for her to speak out against injustice while simultaniously being worth £20 million. Maybe if she gave away every penny and actually lived the injustice then I would have more respect for her and what she says.

Funny how virtually all actors and Musicians were against Brexit when, like Politicians, all they could see was themselves losing money and things being a little more difficult for them to go do a concert. 

[Chillidoggy]

Lily Allen is way down on the 'national public show of grief' hypocrite scale.

Bono's your man for that.

[Barrykearley]

Who's only just upstaged by Bob I live in tax exile with my money and want everyone else to pay for the worlds poor Geldof