Brexit

[march]

If we have no Deal the gov has announced:

No Tariffs on nearly all imports, except where it would be detrimental to UK businesses (10% on beef, poultry, cars, etc..)

No Border between NI and Eire.

 

Why the F&%k did they state this months ago!

[Kimbers]

I just don't get it, I really don't. Don't the Politicians believe their eyes and ears? Or are they in such a London Centric Bubble that they think the public is behind them?

They can’t cancel Brexit, not without the whole political system falling down around their corrupt EU pandering, dishonest, politician ears. The best they can hope for would be another vote. But by doing that you will merely set a precedence and as a legal expert said tonight that will mean brexiteers will just thwart any result and demand another. And so it goes on and on and on. You risk the whole democratic system falling down to a level where nothing will ever get done and the country will grind to a halt. Unless something happens to totally change our political system then I can’t see any way the country will come out of this without a split in the population that will take generations to fix. Lastly, if the remainers think it’s bad now. Imagine everyone who was thwarted in their leave vote, voting UKIP at the next election. Even if it’s only 40% of the population, down by 12% of the leavers vote! And don't forget you are talking a voting system where 28-32% normally gets you elected with a majority. Then you will see a Major hard Brexit!

[C8RKH]

Interesting that if you look at the polls and the opinions coming from "the man on the street" interviews that people on all sides of the fence are getting increasingly frustrated with many, even Remainers, just wishing the government got with it and we left.  I'm not sure that if we had another referendum the result would be any difference, indeed, I suspect that the majority to leave might actually increase by a % or 2.  I do think that Parliament is totally at odds with the mood in the country and I can see a crisis of constitution developing here and a complete lack of trust developing between the people and parliament.

This is a cockup of monumental proportions and personal views aside, this is a terrible state to be in.  We had a people's vote. The biggest turnout of the people in decades. And Leave was the decision. Why has this will of the people been so hard to deliver?  And why have the people who lost the vote tried so hard to over turn, through every back door and corner, the will of the majority?  It's criminal what has been done here in my point of view.

[Mark Blanchard]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

It’s very difficult to buy barrels of gunpowder. In London however - there’s porsches all over the place - they go bang just nice

Let’s start with my Wife’s Boxster.

[Andyww]

59 minutes ago, march said:

If we have no Deal the gov has announced:

No Tariffs on nearly all imports, except where it would be detrimental to UK businesses (10% on beef, poultry, cars, etc..)

No Border between NI and Eire.

 

Why the F&%k did they state this months ago!

Yes funny that.

Thats exactly what I have been saying would be the situation for months. I have had discussions with several people who are usually on the ball but have been believing the constant project fear lies about huge tariffs on everything, shortages, delays etc etc because they have been told thats what happens under WTO. Now the truth is coming out because they can no longer get away with it. 

Oh and note all those who predicted doom for the car industry, no tariffs on car parts.

[C8RKH]

We started the whole process based on lies and miss information from the Brexit camp and the whole process has been undermined based on the lies and miss-information from the Remains Project Fear.  Each as bad as the other.

[Andyww]

9 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

We started the whole process based on lies and miss information from the Brexit camp 

I cant think of any. Remainers endlessly bang on about the bus but that was a suggestion, not a factual statement. 

The 350 million figure is quite accurate if you factor in all the losses the UK incurs in addition to actual contributions, such as loss of VAT, corporation tax and outright fraud.

[Neal H]

28 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Yes funny that.

Thats exactly what I have been saying would be the situation for months. I have had discussions with several people who are usually on the ball but have been believing the constant project fear lies about huge tariffs on everything, shortages, delays etc etc because they have been told thats what happens under WTO. Now the truth is coming out because they can no longer get away with it. 

Oh and note all those who predicted doom for the car industry, no tariffs on car parts.

They can say what they like now, as they know that no-deal is going to be voted off the table this evening and of course the EU is going to agree to an extension of Article 50, thwarting Brexit has always been their goal - one they have shared with UK government and parliament!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

My head hurts. Can someone help me with this? It refers to this evening's Commons vote on excluding No Deal. The wording of the motion is: 

"This House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a withdrawal agreement and a framework on the future relationship on 29 March".

So if the Commons pass this vote, then they would move on to a vote about delaying Brexit tomorrow.

However, the BBC News website has a diagram which shows the opposite is true and that if today's motion is passed, then we move to No Deal Brexit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47548498

[andydclements]

I think it's just the meaning on the BBC site of "pass", I also read it that the "yes" vote by MPs tonight = we will not leave without a deal, and a" No" vote would mean that we may leave without a deal.

Vote phrased it the way they did, so the government are proposing something and the MPs approve it.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Seems that the powers-that-be at the BBC website must read TLF. They've just changed the diagram completely to answer my point. Here's the corrected version. Not that it's an important issue to get right or anything! 

[C8RKH]

The EU can always deny the extension request.

At this stage it would be suicide to take no deal off the table. If we do then the EU have won.

[Andyww]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Seems that the powers-that-be at the BBC website must read TLF. 

 

No way, they would only ever read a Prius forum or maybe one about those folding bikes.

[LotusFella]

11 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/237487

prorogue

I had to look this up!  I must be one of the millions of ignorant idiots that voted to leave.

 

oh and signed it by the way. 

[JG220]

9 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Interesting that if you look at the polls and the opinions coming from "the man on the street" interviews that people on all sides of the fence are getting increasingly frustrated with many, even Remainers, just wishing the government got with it and we left.  I'm not sure that if we had another referendum the result would be any difference, indeed, I suspect that the majority to leave might actually increase by a % or 2.  I do think that Parliament is totally at odds with the mood in the country and I can see a crisis of constitution developing here and a complete lack of trust developing between the people and parliament.

This is a cockup of monumental proportions and personal views aside, this is a terrible state to be in.  We had a people's vote. The biggest turnout of the people in decades. And Leave was the decision. Why has this will of the people been so hard to deliver?  And why have the people who lost the vote tried so hard to over turn, through every back door and corner, the will of the majority?  It's criminal what has been done here in my point of view.

Because it was an illegal, non binding referendum?

Because nobody voted to be significantly worse off?

Because a deal was touted as what would happen in Brexit?

I dunno, there are probably others. It is a monumental mess though, I agree with that. I don't know any remainers that have moved to leavers though, and the vast majority of the people (London, see) I know are of that ilk. 

[C8RKH]

How can you say it was an illegal referendum? Please explain.

How do you know people will be worse off when we do not yet know what WILL be happening on WHAT terms. Which people? Do you know that all Brexiteers where expecting a golden handout?  What supports your view here?

We didn't have a referendum on a deal. The question was should we leave or remain. Nothing more or nothing less. We were never voting on the terms of a deal. Again, please explain.

London has always been remain so if you fish in the same pond you'll always get the same fish. Seems logical to me 

But the UK is not just London.

[JG220]

The leave campaign broke the law (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-broke-electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken - this is widely reported & not contentious, i chose a guardian link as it was the first, but you can get the same information from multiple sources) it was therefore an illegal referendum. 

The vast majority of the predictions suggest we will be worse off under a no deal Brexit.

I've posted the links before in this thread, there is plenty of evidence that the leave campaign were campaigning on the assumption that there would be an agreement (a deal) between the UK and the EU in the event of a leave majority. 

You are right, we were never voting on the terms of the deal, which is exactly why we need to go back to a vote. The first referendum a (non binding) intent the second will be an implementation vote. And because all the options other than remain are shit, hopefully we'll come to our senses. 

In any event, given that we have followed the non-binding referendum's intent, we now need to follow the non-binding parliament's decision to take no-deal off the table for ever. Which i think leads only to May's deal (which is still shit) or another referendum, or both (with May's deal on the ballot). 

Brexiteer MPs looked more than upset tonight, serves them right, they were told that they were risking Brexit by not voting for May's deal. 

If i was May, i'd try for a third time before the 29th,  i think that taking no deal off indefinitely as they have tonight, would mobilise brexiteers to vote for her deal. Whether that is enough or not, i'm not sure given that DUP aren't for turning, their issues are more fundamental with the backstop. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by JG220

[PhillC]

 

"The leave campaign broke the law"

Does that actually mean that "The Referendum" was illegal?

[pete]

Can just imagine the EU delighting in punishing us Insome way if we go back now and what a laughing stock we would be

[JG220]

We are already a laughingstock 

12 minutes ago, PhillC said:

 

"The leave campaign broke the law"

Does that actually mean that "The Referendum" was illegal?

I dunno, doesn't it?

[C8RKH]

14 minutes ago, PhillC said:

 

"The leave campaign broke the law"

Does that actually mean that "The Referendum" was illegal?

That was my point. The two things are mutuallly exclusive. I am sorry but that does not make the vote illegal.

2 minutes ago, JG220 said:

We are already a laughingstock 

I dunno, doesn't it?

No it doesn't. The vote was legal. The bluster is not the vote. Can't you see the difference?

I also think you are confusing other things. The vote was non binding. However the last general election was fought out with a Tory manifesto to execute the will of the people. They won the general election so that gave them the mandate.  This really is not as complex as you are making out. The referendum leaflet that outlined the vote was clear that we were voting to leave or remain. We were never promised a vote on any deal. And people wonder why we get frustrated....

[LotusFella]

20 minutes ago, JG220 said:

We are already a laughingstock 

I dunno, doesn't it?

Sorry but getting annoyed now.  The people of the UK are NOT a F**King laughing stock.  The politicians are!!!!!!!!!

[100th_Idiot]

Well I voted remain first time. Were there another referendum I'd vote leave. Bridges are burned. We will forever be the awkward child in the coroner.

[LotusFella]

As everyone is saying the vote was leave or remain.  Not be a vasel state of the EU!

 

Also it was the largest turn out in modern history

[C8RKH]

@100th_Idiot well you're the first @JG220 has ever met then!  A remainer to leaver...  Do you live in London too?