Climate Change Poll! Another Kimbers Poll!

[Bibs]

57 minutes ago, march said:

Another one - a couple of days ago 2 old farts were on a bridge over the A38 with Extinction rebellion and climate protest banners having a go at all the tourists for daring to come to Devon for a break.

Currently in Devon on a break, would have waved if we'd seen them! 😂

[march]

10 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Currently in Devon on a break, would have waved if we'd seen them! 😂

Ahhh - so it's all your fault!

[andydclements]

On 21/08/2021 at 22:31, Mysterae said:

Did somebody mention data? If it doesn't display, here's the link in the image.

 

Unfortunately CO2 emissions aren't a precise measure of which country is really at the root of the problem. The early years of this chart, the UK was a major industrial economy, but over time we've moved to simply importing, and that means that the things we use/ consume are often made in PRC, the same is true of many other economies, hence PRC emitting a lot of CO2 to produce those things.

[Bibs]

39 minutes ago, march said:

Ahhh - so it's all your fault

Definitely, but I'm sure emissions would have been worse had we all jetted off to the beach somewhere! Having a wonderful time, certainly reinforcing the local economy so those bridgidiots can keep shouting all they like! 

[mg4lotus]

If we were starting from scratch it would be the blindingly obvious choice to go for renewable. Fossil fuels are dirty and limited supply, we are increasingly reliant on other countries to supply who may not be friendly.

Renewables are available to all countries and can be clean. It is the blindingly obvious choice.

[Greg | ValetPro]

There is a lot of BS out there.  In our industry companies talk about green products. But all products have an impact on the environment.  It is true that green products help reduce but I feel that some companies are just out right lying.  Bio Plastic are an example of this.  SO they use sugar cane to make plastic bottles. But it is still plastic and the after effect is the issue with plastic because it does not biodegrade. The biodegrade plastic is potentially a bigger problem because it does not disappear it just go down to small beads so appears to have biodegraded. Thats what gets in to food etc.

WE start making electric cars with big batteries.  But there is not enough lithium to create the cars we need. So its clear that our current battery system is only good to wealth countries.  Batteries need recycling because they don't last and this is very complicated to do.  SO there are so many issues around the battery powered car.  That does not mean this is not the future and its also clear that battery cars are less harmful to the environment depending on how the electricity is made.  Not any better if the source is not clean.  

In fairness this is all development work.  

 

Hyrdogen ICE engines sound exciting and fuel cells powered by Hydrogen. My concern is that this is one explosive fuel.  Your never get me close to a car park.  Maybe they have a way of making the hydrogen safe.  but the though of a multi story car park is insane if all cars are fuelled by Hydrogen.  That would make a big bang.  

 

Some how the future has to be a renewable route and safe for the environment. 

 

The future of travel for me is a bit worrying because I like driving. The future and government seem to be look to autonomous cars.  I can see benefits for this, IE when I'm 80 years old getting in an autonomous car sound like a great way to get around. 

I hope ICE car can still be a thing for the road and racing.  I hope the world does not look down on ICE cars.

 

David Attenborough seemed to suggest that the issue is with the rain forest and that the diversity for of these forests need to be built back up.  And the size need to be increase to where it used to be. 

No more palm oil for soaps etc.  Which is the biggest reason diversity has changed so much.  

 

I think diversity is important part in nature and life.  I see the change in small business having a much tougher time of things as big companies get bigger, Our choice reduce and wealth end up in a smaller percentage of the population.  The balance is a tough one for any government to manage. because companies that do thing well get better and they grow with much more pace.  I think its similar to the environment.  At some point thing will just change because there be on other choice and balance will come back for a bit.

thats my 2 cents.

[windymiller]

 

[mg4lotus]

@windymilleryou seem to be fixated with small numbers and the effects those small numbers might have or not have. Did you know that 1 gram of Polonium-210 is enough to kill 50 million people. I'm guessing you don't believe in climate change.

[Barrykearley]

Climate has been changing for millions of years - it’s sure unlikely to stop changing. The mass occupation by consumerist humans ain’t helping that either.

[windymiller]

41 minutes ago, mg4lotus said:

@windymilleryou seem to be fixated with small numbers and the effects those small numbers might have or not have. Did you know that 1 gram of Polonium-210 is enough to kill 50 million people. I'm guessing you don't believe in climate change.

as barry has said you can do what you want with stats !!! do i believe in climate change ?? err of course i do because it is changing !!! do i believe man is tilting this balance ?? no can we factor in the benifit of increased co2 on crop production ? can we factor in the reduction of heat needed to keep people warm ? no of course not and not being funny if your so so into the co2 fake story you shouldnt have a lotus in fact you shouldnt have a car at all (or fart)   

[ramjet]

Any discussion on global warming is a HUGE can of worms.

[mg4lotus]

I'm not into any fake stories. I don't know enough about it, one way or the other. Like I've already said, I'm not a climate scientist and don't pretend to be. I am open minded. I do recognise that balances can tilted by small numbers.

[ramjet]

I think it is very hard to find information that is not clouded by political agendas, hidden agendas, bending of statistics, peer reviewed etc. I watched the video that @windymiller posted, but then was confused when they cited two periods to compare to the coldest period in the last 10,000 years and the two periods were 2001~2020 and 2011~2020. Since they overlap, wouldn't they be considered to be the one period? i.e. 2001~2020.

I understand if they were comparing decades to the coldest period, but then that should be 2001~2010 and 2011~2020 shouldn't it?

[mg4lotus]

The video posted is by "Philosophical Investigations" (Who is that?), the comparisons may be dis-jointed as he appears to have cherry-picked data from actual scientists to suit his argument. He even states that he has done that.

In the interest of balance here is the actual press conference video that he seems to be misrepresenting. It's a long video. There is a five minute lead in and, no, I have not watched it.

 

[ramjet]

I heard the cherry picked comment. I thought that he was referring to what someone else had done? Why would you put a video out and say I have cherry picked these two periods? Just invalidates your entire argument?

[mg4lotus]

At 9.40 in the video by "Philosophical Investigations" when talking about cherry picking he states that "we can play that game too"

[mg4lotus]

I don't know much about this but even I can see the questions he asks are the wrong questions. The answers he supplies are cherry picked, out of context, or irrelevant. If you want a fake story it's obvious that is it.

[windymiller]

it is a can of worms and both sides can and have cherry picked but the other side of the climate change argument is not getting any coverage i guess thats my point

[Barrykearley]

It’s definitely got worse since brexit.

[mg4lotus]

I'm all for evidenced and reasoned argument, like I said, I'm open-minded. I just hope no one is duped by that charlatan and his ideology.

[Kimbers]

I am 100% with David Attenborough. The way to save the Planet is not taxes and huge changes to how we drive or fly. 

The way to save the Planet is in rebuilding our Natural world to help process both the things we create and that nature creates naturally. This includes:

- Rebuilding the rain forests and stopping deforestisation. 
- Western Countries replanting Proper Ancient Forests (not building Pine Forests for wood)
- Reducing the impact on the environment of population Growth including Building Apartments instead of housing estates and legislation for all houses to have Solar Panels etc.
- Cutting our reliance on natural resources/Plastics/wastage etc
- Shipping all those who tell us "You have ruined our lives and our future!" to China, Russia or somewhere where they may actually do some good (or Disappear, either is fine).

[Greg | ValetPro]

This is amusing.  Australian government plan for EV apparently 

 

 

[ramjet]

Nope. It's satire. Look at the spelling of Australian at the start.

However, it could possibly be true.

 

[andydclements]

I just really annoyed when people say their EV or other such thing has zero emissions. It has emissions, they're just not localised to the car. Whether it's EV which has emissions associated with the shipping, construction, repeatedly shipping components and finished product, and power generation, or something like Hydrogen fuel cell which has pretty much the same except to extract the Hydrogen they have to use power.

So, keep taxing EV and hybrids etc, just tax them less by an amount that represents the reduction in emissions over  the lifetime.

[C8RKH]

On 24/08/2021 at 11:05, Kimbers said:

I am 100% with David Attenborough. The way to save the Planet is not taxes and huge changes to how we drive or fly. 

The way to save the Planet is in rebuilding our Natural world to help process both the things we create and that nature creates naturally. This includes:

- Rebuilding the rain forests and stopping deforestisation. 
- Western Countries replanting Proper Ancient Forests (not building Pine Forests for wood)
- Reducing the impact on the environment of population Growth including Building Apartments instead of housing estates and legislation for all houses to have Solar Panels etc.
- Cutting our reliance on natural resources/Plastics/wastage etc
- Shipping all those who tell us "You have ruined our lives and our future!" to China, Russia or somewhere where they may actually do some good (or Disappear, either is fine).

But if you allow the human population to continue to breed at current rates then non of the above will make a difference. Everywhere you look people defer to "convenient" or palatable arguments instead of addressing the real problem. Too many people making too many more people.

It's a bit like saying we can fix the refugee's being overcrowded on the boat by giving them a bigger boat. Think about that for a minute and what would happen....