Coil pack connections

[Maggo54321]

Hi all, I feel like I've picking your brains a lot recently, but I have another issue and wondered if anyone knows the answer.

My car wouldn't start today, and after a bit of investigations, I have found that both connections to my coil pack are positive. 

I'm guessing this could be because I have a fuel system issue and my question is, does the car have a safety feature that would short out the coil pack when there is an issue with the fuel system?  I'm hoping the answer is yes!  This would isolate my problem to the fuel system issue.

Thanks for any help.

[Chillidoggy]

1. What’s the fuel system issue?

2. Have you got the wiring diagrams for your car?

 

[Maggo54321]

I’m yet to get to the bottom of the fuel system issue it’s possibly the regulator but basically the plenum is full of fuel currently.  I’m early in the investigation. 
I should have the wiring diagrams but not had the opportunity to look through them yet as they’re very thorough and complex by what I’ve seen. 

[jonwat]

4 hours ago, Maggo54321 said:

My car wouldn't start today, and after a bit of investigations, I have found that both connections to my coil pack are positive. 

You should have three wires onto the coil, one negative earth & two to positive, one of which goes to the starter motor solenoid, the other to earth. The coil should be six volts, which is fed via a six volt resistance wire when the engine is running & fed twelve volts from the solenoid when the engine is  cranking.

[Chillidoggy]

First, if the plenum's 'full of fuel', any attempt at starting it would be extremely unwise. Run a Freescan or Espritmon check to see if you have any fault codes showing, and then move on from there.

@jonwat If the car's an SE, I think it has twin tower coil packs, not a single ignition coil.

[jonwat]

10 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

@jonwat If the car's an SE, I think it has twin tower coil packs, not a single ignition coil.

OK, I just looked at his signature which says 1989 Esprit Turbo. Silly me 

[Maggo54321]

Thanks guys. I’m about to go out and strip things down to see if I can isolate the problem. 
It’s my own fault. just bought the car and I had noticed a vacuum pipe off so stripped the plenum back to the carbs and saw that it was from the side of the distributor so I attached that back on. 
I also noticed that the bolts holding the carbs to the inlet manifold were not tight so I nipped them up tight. 
That’s pretty much all I did. Went for about a 10 mile drive and all was great. Parked up and 30 minutes later it wouldn’t start. 
Noticed no spark at plugs so hence I found the issue being both sides of the coil positive. Then saw fuel dripping out of the plenum. Undid the pipe at the bottom and it gushed out. 
So today is a big investigation day!

[NG5]

@Chillidoggy the car has carbs so can't be an SE as all SE's are fuel injection. So should be a single coil pack. But flooding in the plenum is far more likely to be a carb issue than an electrical issue. 

[jonwat]

1 hour ago, Maggo54321 said:

noticed that the bolts holding the carbs to the inlet manifold were not tight so I nipped them up tight. 

Worse thing you could do, I really do recommend you start consulting the workshop manual before you do much more.

[Chillidoggy]

51 minutes ago, NG5 said:

@Chillidoggy the car has carbs so can't be an SE as all SE's are fuel injection. So should be a single coil pack. But flooding in the plenum is far more likely to be a carb issue than an electrical issue. 

Perhaps the OP should explain exactly what he has before we go any further?

[jonwat]

1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

Perhaps the OP should explain exactly what he has before we go any further?

His signature says he has a 1989 Esprit Turbo.

[Chillidoggy]

With a coil pack.

[Maggo54321]

Sorry guys been busy stripping. 
 

Yes it’s an 89 Turbo 910 engine. 
 

Im just trying to decipher if the fuel issue would cause the no spark issue. ie If there is a safety feature to purposely short out the electrical system in the event of a fuel problem (which I know I have).  Otherwise I have 2 issues to sort. I don’t really want to start messing with the electrics if there is a known safety cut out when there’s a fuel issue. 

[jonwat]

29 minutes ago, Maggo54321 said:

Yes it’s an 89 Turbo 910 engine. 

 ie If there is a safety feature to purposely short out the electrical system in the event of a fuel problem

Part number 10

[Chillidoggy]

If you know you have a fuelling problem then fix that first before moving on to the electrical.

In Jon’s post above, P/N 10 is an inertia switch, which is designed to cut the ignition in the event of a crash. I’m not sure it operates in the event of a fuelling problem, but TBC. Have a look at your wiring diagram to see what it connects to.

[Maggo54321]

Ok guys thanks for your help to date. 
 

I’ve now got the carbs off (well I took the manifold off first as it was easier). I’m just about to give the carbs a good clean and service (should be interesting as I don’t think they’ve been off since new (34 years!). 
 

Anyone know what torque setting for both the carbs to the manifold and the manifold to the head?

[jonwat]

59 minutes ago, Maggo54321 said:

Anyone know what torque setting for both the carbs to the manifold and the manifold to the head?

RTFM 

[Maggo54321]

Cheers so I get the manifold to head at 14-16 lbs/ft. 
Carbs to manifold doesn’t have a setting. Probably as they’re on with some kind of rubber grommet which seems to be my initial issue of over tightening.  So I’ll just go steady then lol

[jonwat]

1 hour ago, Maggo54321 said:

Carbs to manifold doesn’t have a setting. Probably as they’re on with some kind of rubber grommet which seems to be my initial issue of over tightening.  So I’ll just go steady then lol

Start reading on page 65

[Maggo54321]

Thank you very much for the link. I hadn’t got a carb manual (until now) so thanks again.

I think what happened is I’ve nipped up the carbs far too tightly and one (or more) of the flaps has stuck open. The engine has flooded with fuel when I’ve continued to try and start it (the inlet manifold is still full by the looks of it - what should I do about that?) and for safety, the spark coil has been shorted by some sensor (which I’ve yet to discover).
 

I’m hoping that when the fuel evaporates (or I take the manifold off completely to clean it all) that the sensor resets and I get a spark again.

Do you think I’ve done any permanent damage?  What should I do about all the fuel in the manifold bottom?  How far should I go to clean it all up?

[Chillidoggy]

If you try and run the engine with the inlet manifold full of fuel, you risk damaging it.

I’m curious, what sensor reset are you referring to?

[Maggo54321]

I’m less bothered about the spark issue at the moment as I’m in too deep now with the inlet. 

Ports 1,2,3,&4 (starting from the rear) were full of fuel. I’ve soaked as much as I could up. It must have been this back carb which was stuck open. 
Anyways it been a learning exercise and I’m almost at the ‘putting back together’ phase but that will be another day. 
How deep do these ports go as I can’t touch the bottom with my finger (I was expecting to feel valves but I can’t. I’ve got as much fuel (and I guess some coolant) out as possible with a soak rag. 
Going to clean up the visible parts of the block before putting back together, I’m guessing I should replace the inlet manifold gasket whilst here, which will delay things a few days as i’m probably going to struggle to get one tomorrow. 
Thanks for all your help today, it’s been a learning day!

Also, what is this?  Should it ‘click’ when I press it?

[Maggo54321]

Just a quick update.  It does seem that my fuel issue is related to the non starting, and perhaps the engine flooding due to a stuck float needle or something.  So I've serviced the carbs with a kit from Dellorto, and after more diagnosis on the lack of spark, I narrowed it down to the distributor itself, so I've taken the opportunity to upgrade the distributor to a 123 Tune + bluetooth distributor.  This removes the need for the amplifier and rev limiter too.

It's not arrived as yet, but I'll report back.  I have a rolling road session booked in 2 weeks, so hopefully everything will be sorted by then and they can do the mapping etc as well as carb setups - can't wait.