RV8 Twin Turbo S3

[slewthy]

Wayne,

Can't believe I've totally missed this thread! Last I recall was you keeping the 2.2 - I must have been on the moon or something!

Got to say, your progress has been very impressive. Puts mine to shame.

The engine looks great there - I'm not clever enough to give advice about fit/turbo/intercooler etc but it does look as if it belongs!!!

I wish you all the best in this project - you will be able to say a RV8 fits, this is how you do it and this is the resultant power. Ace. I dont care if there are easier engine choices. This is the way we advance.

Simon

[lotusross]

Just curious - why did you want to run an inline pump? I thought about doing this too and for a while I was convinced I needed it.

Then I thought of my old Pontiac Fiero and the cheapness of GM - and how they took a 50 year old design and plopped it in the back of the P car - so I never bothered with the new water pump.

To my surprise - it works quite well in my set up.

Those little electric pumps are expensive.....

By the way - your car looks awesome so far - I love it - I can't wait to see some video when it's running.

Edited December 30, 2009 by lotusross

[wayneb911]

Thanks Simon

Hope your car is going well. Once this is done i plan to write a guide on everything as i did on the complete conversion of my 911 start to finish. Least that way should anyone plan the same in the future they will have all the answers in one place.

Should have some more updates in the next few days.

Jason

What sort of pump are you on about and do you have any pictures? Only though about an inline pump to save on space again

Edited December 30, 2009 by wayneb911

[wayneb911]

Been thinking lots over the last few weeks and reading Hillys and Punkys conversions. Have to say i think i may have been swayed!! Im actually thinking of pulling the plug and going the V6 Duratec route instead for a more modern engine. Least i havent spent any money yet if i do decide to do this.

Whoops.... I have a habit of changing my mind half way through things!! I have a strong feeling i will now as well!!!!!!

Someone give me a slap please!!!

[Andy67]

There you go Wayne....!

Think it may be a good move mate,I like the Rover engines (Had a couple of Range Rovers) but maybe sounds a bit too "kit carish" in the Esprit...?

[red vtec]

No keep the Rover unit they are a well proven lump and can be very easily tuned have you looked at RPI http://www.v8engines.com/index.html I gather its a 3.5 if it's carbed I couldnt see the capacity anywhere. I have been looking at a Range Rover 3.9 they do sound great when running.

[saggitarius]

I'm not going to urge you to do one thing or the other, but IF you decide to change your aim for another engine, have you considered going across the pond?

The LS engine I'm using isn't a lot heavier than either the Rover or a four cam duratec, and even if it doesn't have lots of cams and calves it is quite modern, with all aluminium construction, six bolt main bearing caps, engine management with one coil per plug. It is a 2006 model engine, gives 305 BHP as it is and 400+ with simple modifications like changing the (single) cam and lifter assy and exhaust system (which you have to change anyway).

I bought mine off eBay USA and had it delivered on my doorstep for a total of around

[wayneb911]

Andy

I think its deffinatelly the right move and im already looking at a doner car that way i have pretty much everything.

Chris

I know the rover is a proven engine its a 3.5 but i think i have now made my mind up and the engine will be out in the next couple of days.

Geir

Over hear Duratecs are ten a penny and easy to get parts for even in the local breakers. A whole vehicle i can pick up damaged with a good engine for £500 or less. Deffinatelly the Duratec route now.

Hopefully i will stick with that. Ha Ha!!

Edited January 1, 2010 by wayneb911

[red vtec]

What sort of power do the duratec give?

[wayneb911]

Standard ST24 engine produces 170bhp standard but easily tuned to 200 with not alot of money. I have seen some around 300 but not really looked into tuning. Just want the car on the road!

[red vtec]

Have you thought about a Honda unit? such as a S2000 Vtec, 240Bhp in standard trim.

Mind you I know sod all about if it's the right layout, but they are powerful and reliable. And sound fantastic on full blat

[wayneb911]

The Duratec route has been done by a couple of people already so their is plenty of information about and it also seems a safe bet and they are known as a good engine.

[hilly]

Hi Wayne

I really think you need to stop and consider where you are going with this project.

Chopping and changing your mind continually is just going to mean that your car is going to end up as a pile of bits.

You need to ask yourself why you are doing an engine conversion in the first place.

If it is to have more power then both of your chosen power plants so far don't really give you a lot extra without modifying the engine once fitted.

You could have achieved the same results with the 912 engine without the extra hassle of the conversion and at the same time keep the car more original.

If it is to update the drive train then you need to look into the task a bit more throughly before starting, as your current approach is costing you a lot of time, cost and effort so far.

Swapping from the RV8 to the Duratec just because of crank pulley/water pump space issues is daft, you will have a bunch of other issues to deal with which may mean that the RV8 is a better bet.

Just because a couple of people have done the Duratec before will not make the task much easier, it is not like the RV8 is new territory. I am not saying the RV8 is a good choice (it has it strengths, just not in an Esprit), but you need to consider the right one on more than just a couple of fitment issues.

It is your car however, you can do exactly what you like with it.

I don't want to appear like a miserable old git, it is just that this is the third direction change you have had with this already, it is forming up that your car ultimatly ending up as a worthless pile of scrap which would be a shame

Hilly

[wayneb911]

Hi Hilly

Fully understand what your saying and i really need to get to grips with this now. The right way for me is deffinatelly an engine conversion. What engine is best i think is now the Duratec rather than the V8. Few reasons,

Cheapness of parts

Reliability

Modernisation.

It has always been on my mind if i am actually doing the correct thing by putting the V8 in and at the same time i have always wondered if it should be a more modern engine that goes in. The more i read on the duratec and yours the more i think the modern route is better. Got me thinking actually about my engine when Matt came and picked up my old one. He said about a more modern engine and mentioned your car at the time but as i already had my engine i was set on it.

Your 100% correct when you say i need to sit down and completely decide on what i want to do. As my project has started changing as i have gone by this is now the reasons for choosing another engine.

I started off planning a carb turbo then decided to go EFI. Turbo's were going to sit close to fuel tanks as we new so lots of heat issues to address. Figured with all the alterations i was making along the way i would be much better fitting a Duratec as alot less issues and its EFI already so i dont need to start messing around with adding EFI etc. The Duratec has been well documented by Punky so there is plenty of pictures and information which i have read over and over along with your thread as well.

One of the good things is i dont start my projects unless i plan to finish them no matter what changes i make along the way so never fear the Esprit will be back on the road and not off to the parts bin and im also still aiming for my 2 year target.

Hopefully i will stick to this decision but i wont hold myself to that as i know what i am like.. Ha ha.

[punky]

Hi Wayne

I have to agree with some of the points Hilly has mentioned.

I personally think the Duratec is a great engine choice, although I would seriously consider the extra power available from the 3.0 Jaguar variant over the 2.5 Mondeo lump. Due to the amount of work needed by you for a successful conversion the extra bucks you will pay for the Jag lump will pale into insignificance compared to the amount of work needed to fit either engine, so fit the best you can buy to avoid any disappointment when the job

[Paul C]

The mondeo lump is designed to be mounted transversely where as the S/type engine is mounted inline as it is in the Esprit.

The Duratec is a popular conversion engine for the Elise (being a transverse mount). The specialist that does my Elise offers a complete duratec conversion package for the Elise (inc all adaptor plates, mounts, exhaust, flywheel, custom ECU and induction etc) and races them with that engine. Just based on the fact it's being professionally done already and is running and being raced in a lot of smaller and much lighter Lotus cars, i'd go for something different.

Jag sounds great.

[wayneb911]

Andy

I really appreciate all your advice and comments. The reason for the mondeo version was to buy a whole car so i have most of the parts needed. Wriing hoses etc. I wasnt aware you could pick the jag engines up as cheap as that so i may start looking for one. Using the mondeo i would have planned on fitting jag manifolds and mounts if they could be used but again i may be better just buying the jag engine.

On the adapter side is there a possibility you could do a paper copy of the adapter plate to post to me so i can line it up against my gearbox to see how it compares? Think this would be the best starting point for me and then take things from there. As the 2.5 and the Duratec share the same block im sure the plate will be okay on that side. Also the jag engine for not alot of money appears to have a huge increase in horsepower to the 2.5 .i I may actually be able to locate a new engine as my company may have some in storage which i might be able to get a good price on. Will see what i can find out.

[Bibs]

Wayne, please, please, please take on board the advice you're being given here by people who have walked the path before you. Your indecision and chopping and changing is leading exactly to what Hilly implies and you'll end up with a mess of a car. The advice is good, you need to take it and adhere to it and then to stick to a decision you make based on this advice.

Oh, and if it helps, these are cheap on ebay at the moment...

Tempted?

[nigel cowell]

Hi Wayne

just replied to your email before reading this topic.

the mondeo duratec will be the cheapest way but less powerful than the jag,

i love mine though and it makes as good a sound as Punkys with all the reliability.

The only thing i would say is if you are looking for the ease way the isn't one,

you will have less hair at the end Nigel

Nigel

[wayneb911]

Bibs

I know what you mean and i knew i would get a good telling off when i posted this but its a learning curve and one hopefully i will learn by and stick to my new decision. I think the Duratec is what i will go for. based on mixed comments from Punkys post and also Nigels email i am undecided as to which is the best route. Both have pros and cons. For ease the Jaguar sounds like a better start due to pipework and mounts etc but also the mondeo sounds like it will be relitevely simple as well and some jag parts will be interchangable. Possibly manifolds and engine mounts. I ave asked Nigel about instalation regarding the mondeo and how it goes in with the camshaft driven pump etc. Hopefully he will be able to drop me some images. On the other hand fiting the jag engine sounds long term a batter bet.

Punky would it be possible to use the standard jag inlet manifold rather than change to mondeo etc making that a bit simpler? Height is not an issue as not to worried about using the standard engine cover after as i can make a new one similar sort of thing to hilly's

This time i think i will gather more information on the two engines and then make a final decision from there.

Sorry to waste everyones time and being a bit nieve with the rover engine. Hopefully back on track now and will see this one through.

One thing not to fear though is this car will get finised and will not be left a mess. I cant do that to a car and have always completed my projects. New year new start.

[Gasman GT3]

Why dont you be really radical and go Diesel? Vauxhall 1.9 CDTI Ecotec, 150PS version, I rekon with all the torque it would go like stink and get over 60mpg!!

Seroiusly, I agree with the other warning posts. Before I got my Esprit I was into the kitcar scene for years and saw more projects fail than triumph due to indecision, and hitting unforseen problems along the way. I saw the same faces year after year saying their car would be here in 12 months time and never was. When I bought my Esprit I vowed not to do any projects on it that would take more than a couple of weeks, for fear of "The Project" getting more & more involved and the car being off the road for years.

I was interested by your comment "The right way for me is definatly and engine conversion" What was so wrong with the 2.2 912 engine? If it was knacked then I understand wanting to change it but just to change it for the thrill of doing it I dont understand but that's just me. If the engine in my GT3 went bang I would either repair it or get a new one, if I wanted a conversion then it would be an S4s engine.

Whatever you do good luck, and one final piece of advice, make the outside look as good as the engine conversion, by that I mean think before putting extra vents in and taking a jigsaw to it. I've seen too many superbly engineered cars that look pants when the bonnet is shut.

[wayneb911]

I have done lots to my previous cars but one thing i have never done is an engine conversion. Being that my car had sat for 17 years un started the engine would have prob needed a fair bit of work. This was my chance to get to grips with doing a conversion. One thing that is my specialty is bodywork and nothing cheesy! Always end up with great looking cars in my opinion. Look at the 911 in my picture. That started life as a narrow bodied 1977 911!

I wont be failing on this one and should be steaming in once i have the new engine.

[Andy67]

Can't fault your enthusiasm and determination Wayne....!

It's making entertaining reading at any rate!

Keep it up mate....!

[wayneb911]

Ha ha!!! Well hopefully with some good advice, lots of pictures and hints and tips from Nigel and Punky i will be able to stay on track!!

[victim]

Wayne this is the year 2010 not he sixties ,get with it do not , fit your car with a motor older than the car!!!! if not restoring it go forward not backward .fuel injection is light years ahead now,look at benslotus79 good example of new tech and an easy upgrade,90 days from rover to caddy swap.