Lotus in Secret Talks with Renault regarding 2011 Engine.

[Bibs]

More engine/gearbox rumours.

[simonb]

So you are a fat rich american, and you fancy playing at being an F1 driver.

Lotus have brought out the Exos, and you "get it", an F1 car for the larger girth, and a proper one, OK so the Chassis is not 100% Lotus, but it has a proper Cosworth engine, and if Cosworth are good enough for Lotus F1...........no wait......

Does seem like an expensive way to work round a gearbox problem, and if Lotus do not know what engine is going in the 2011 car, then their development of that car is not so advanced

[NedaSay]

Cosworth is in charge of the engine not the gearbox... The gearbox provider is Xtrac and they've been the weakest link! The 3 year deal is only with the engine provider as far as I know! So Lotus may get a Renault tranny to work with the Cossie engine next year waiting for the new regulation package that will bring considerable engine negociations in F1 in 2012!

[Iconic Ride]

From Bibs' link above:

"Majority of the mechanical failures have been related with gearbox hydraulics rather than any problems with the team's Cosworth engines themselves. It is believed that the supply of a Renault gearbox is also part of the package."

From Neda's post above:

"So Lotus may get a Renault tranny to work with the Cossie engine next year waiting for the new regulation package that will bring considerable engine negociations in F1 in 2012!"

John reaches deep into the back of a seldom used dressor drawer. He brings out his trusty (and dusty) crystal ball, and gently wipes the surface clean. Gazing into the translucence he begins to make out the Google Earth depiction of the future 2012 Austin Grand Prix circuit......

He squints (he almost always squints, especially if his drugstore cheaters have gone walkabout) fiercely at turn one, a slight rise leading into a challenging left hander. He wills the crystal ball to zoom in on the tiny dots battling for postion going into the turn. Larger they grow, until he can just make out the logo encrusted Lotus entries. Yes....yes.......there it is. The yellow and green livery cannot disguise the French connection, resplendant in its vivid silver and very proprietary mustard colours.

So it's true, he wistfully acknowledges. A matched set of francophilic systems will finally bestow the elusive reliabilty so desperately sought after. The full circle of motoring yin and yang has come to pass for the Lotus marque. God speed Lotus-Renault. God speed, Heikki. God speed, Jarno.

[wookiecj]

A matched set of francophilic systems will finally bestow the elusive reliabilty so desperately sought after.

If it overheats they can use it to cook their lamb on.......

The Austin track plans look good with a back straight of about 3/5mile.

With turn 1 being uphill they may avoid some of the drivers propensity to 'twin' with other cars immedately after the start.

T3,4,5 and the sweep to T6 are a little reminiscent of the Becketts to Chapel complex at Silverstone and should test the balance of the cars.

T10 looks to be for the brave as it appears to be a blind corner on a hill.

I would imagine that T16, 17 and 18 will be treated as a triple apex where time can be won or lost.

And..... it will give their necks a good work out as it is an anti-clockwise circuit (will they also have to drive in the 'wrong' side of the road?)

I'm presuming that to ease the travel schedules it will either preceed or follow the Canadian GP (if it is in the 2012 calendar) so it may be some time in June which will make it fairly hot weatherwise.

I'm looking forward to it.

John, any news on the Hotel/Casino/Drinking complex you must have in the pipeline... has the planning permission been approved yet?

Edited September 5, 2010 by wookie

[Iconic Ride]

Hi, Chris. The turns paying homage to Silverstone were intentional, according to an article in the local rag, as was the triple apex set meant to mirror Instanbul's turn 8, with turns 12 through 15 "giving the nod" to Hockenheim.

Regarding the "Hotel/Casino/Drinking complex" you make reference to, my current plan (intended to save on costs) is to acquire the rights to the western herniated heterotopic infolding of the track just north of the pits. Close examination will reveal this area to be designated as the "Vending Area." This plays into my scheme to establish a tenting campground for skint retiree fans who need access to low cost nourishment such as hot dogs and cheap burgers. I have to assume that, Texas being Texas, the procurement of liquid accompaniment will not be unduly challenging. Tickets for the state lottery will be available to fulfill the Casino crowd's needs.

Cheers!

John

[wookiecj]

John, I'm glad to hear that you've got almost everything covered......

You'll have to get the public toilets built early so that they can acqure the genuine 'Jeez, that stinks!' aroma in time for the event and if you erect a chicken ranch it will not only add to the olfactory ambience but also provide on-site access to supplies for the Curry Houses and Mexican fast food establishments which will be an added attraction for the European crowd.

I'll be quite happy to take a 0.1% cut of turnover for those suggestions as that will go a long way to financing my trip to Austin.

[rogerch]

Arewant the duellin' banjo franchise.

[NedaSay]

French TV reporting rumors of bad blood between Lotus Racing and Group Lotus/Proton Berhad! Lotus Racing may loose the rights to use any Lotus Branding next year as a result of what, I don't know!

According to the journalist Group Lotus would be gunning to get the name back and go racing in the US next year! So far nothing new!

However with Lotus trying to get a Renault package and Group Lotus having signed a strategic partnership everything could be in Jeopardy for the team sporting the green and yellow livery! In addition the journalist mentions the widely reported lawsuit involving Force India, Fondtech Aerolab and Lotus Racing! Saying that this Lawsuit is not making people happy at all in Hethel and Kuala Lumpur!

Considering Hazel Chapman and the Boss of Proton were seen at the Lotus motorhome in Valancia I don't know what to think! It may be a wild goose rumor or it may have some truth in it!

[Bibs]

Click for news

[yeller77]

Lotus Racing have also recently secured the rights to rename themselves ‘Team Lotus‘ as they were under Lotus founder Colin Chapman’s reign which saw 7 constructors championships and 6 drivers championships making them the 4th most successful F1 team ever.

Right, expecting greater things out of "Team Lotus-Renault" then...

[NedaSay]

Team Lotus Renault! That does bring back memories!

Just hoping that Lotus Racing aka New Team Lotus is not severing all ties with Group Lotus PLC!

This move would also mean that Tony Fernandes & Co have been able some big time sponsor for next year!

As the Renault package is supposedly quite pricey ($17M) and I'm sure David Hunt did not sell the rights for cheap!

I'm a bit sad that the Cossie deal is over! They were not at fault! Xtrac was!

The official announcement should be made in Singapore!

Here's what i'd like to see:

Both drivers to be maintained!

Base to remain in Norfolk for now!

Ties to Lotus Group to be maintained to an extent!

Signature of an oil supplier/sponsor (Petrobras)!?

Signature of at least another strong sponsor (Superfund)!?

[ramjet]

What are the differences between the two engines? Is it more power, more torque? I suppose with it being a class, that horsepower has a limit, so that leaves where the power comes in, where the torque comes in and I suppose how long the engine takes to rev out? Since neither of the two cars has had any sort of major engine issue, what is the gain going to be?

Isn't eeking the last bit of speed more down to aerodynamics and weight and gearing?

[Ian_m]

Suprised nobody has mentioned the difference in lap times between the Williams and Lotus. Recon you have a point Ramjet, the chasis is not up to the job as yet. Me I would stick with the Cossie and concentrate on beating Williams next year which in my humble opinion would not be an easy task.

Ian.

[NedaSay]

Obviously the car is not up to speed yet! The car lacks downforce cause the design of the car is quite basic! But there's no reason it should have such reliability issues!

The Cossie is not the problem! Tony Fernandes said it himself, Mike Gascoyne did too! The problem is in the hydraulics and gearbox essentials around this engine and these are under par! Considering Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari are offering complete packages (engine, gearbox and hydraulics) while Cosworth only provides engine it is a no brainer!

Williams has had more time and a whole lot more experience so they were able to come up with their own hydraulics and gearbox not Lotus! Cosworth is paying for somebody else incapacity at producing parts that could last the distance!

I believe all the new entrants were offered a deal involving Cosworth engine plus Williams gearbox and Hydraulics for 2011! Virgin is set to get it! So should HRT if they are still around! Obviously Lotus opted for something else!

Edited September 13, 2010 by NedaSay

[lotusross]

Well - the Renault choice for now - would look to be a no brainer - with their KERS and their transmission - they should be in good shape -

We will see where they are in terms of the pecking order next year - still a very new team. I would personally consider it a great year if they could score 1 point. Just 1.

I think the new car is a great start, but they should be up there with Williams, all things being equal.

Mercedes makes a great package - but they said tey don't have any more plant capacity and I'll bet it is the most costly package out there right now.

[ramjet]

Correct me if I'm wrong Neda, but less downforce should equate to more straight line speed, but Webber using Kovi's car as a jump ramp would indicate that the car is not as fast as a car with a higher downforce package (unless Red Bull changed the aero for that race. Who knows?)

Now like I said before, I presume there is a horsepower ceiling for the engines, so isn't straight line speed a combination of co-efficient of drag (less downforce=less drag. No?) and gearing? How can Cosworth develop their engine if people start dropping it? I would think the x-trac box is a bigger issue and maybe a greater available range of gearsets might help?

What does have me buggered is why Kovi hasn't had one gearbox issue (or associated hydraulics) but Trulli has gone out nearly in every race.

I would have thought the idea would be to diversify cars and designs. If everyone starts running all the same gear, the only difference will be back to tactics and pitstops.

Or kidnapping Vettel's mother and blackmailing him to take out all the leaders and himself.

[NedaSay]

True is does mean more speed however it also means longer breaking distances as the aero alone cannot slow the car down! At this last Monza GP both Lotuses were part of the fastest cars on the straights but they had to break pretty early compared to the competition! This is the reason why Heikki could not jump Timo in his Virgin: Timo was slower but their CFD aero package is now more advanced than ours so he was faster getting in and out the curves and corners! Remember that Lotus doesn't use blown diffuser or F-duct! The air channeled to the car is pretty much going where it wants to go compared to what McLaren and RBR are able to get from their rear underpinnings!

Remember Valencia! Heikki was breaking when Webber used his Lotus as a runway! At the time being Lotuses just need to break earlier!

However next year will be a different story! Lotus was able to get his hand on a CFD supercomputer! The new design team is pretty much as good as it gets! And they have 4 extra months to develop a midpack car! Now if next year Renault package is as competitive as this year!

Personally I would have preferred to keep Cosworth ( historically and sentimentally- my eyes just water saying it) However Cosworth doesn't produce its own gearbox! Lotus did advertise for an hydraulics specialist but I guess they need to pretty much have to build a department! Obviously Group Lotus could/did not help much as they have their hands full with the New Esprit, the Evora, the next gen Elise, the hybrids and Indy!!! Their human resources must be spread pretty thin!

Accepting to get William's tech was probably not that enticing, having a competitor nosing in your data is only interesting in some cases ! While the Renault's option was as comprehensive as it could get!

I just hope that Lotus keeps Jarno (which is a done deal I think) and Heikki that maybe in the mix for Petrov seat at Renault alongside Raikkonen it appears! I don't think Fairuz Fauzy is not ready yet I hope Lotus will be able to get them a GP2 seat next season!

Cosworth will keep Williams Next year and probably untill 2013 when VW may join the pack of engine manufacturer! By then Lotus will have all the departments (CFD, wind tunnel, engineering, hydraulics...) it needs to operate in house!

By then the relation between Group Lotus and Cosworth may have evolved into something more! I always thought that this companies should be merged!

Edited September 14, 2010 by NedaSay

[NedaSay]

Rumor!

Ok if this turns out to be true Fernandes and Bahar are evil geniuses!

This is evil!

Lotus racing to rebrand as Team Lotus and get Toyota Power next year at the same time as Bahar at Lotus group is set to announce the return of the iconic esprit powered by none other than Toyota's V8 and V10!

With all the fuss around Lotus Racing loosing the name due to litigation with third parties! And now Lotus Racing would announce strategic cooperation with Toyota providing them with Engine, gearbox and kers!

[Evolution&Aura=Evora]

Rumor!

Ok if this turns out to be true Fernandes and Bahar are evil geniuses!

This is evil!

Lotus racing to rebrand as Team Lotus and get Toyota Power next year at the same time as Bahar at Lotus group is set to announce the return of the iconic esprit powered by none other than Toyota's V8 and V10!

With all the fuss around Lotus Racing loosing the name due to litigation with third parties! And now Lotus Racing would announce strategic cooperation with Toyota providing them with Engine, gearbox and kers!

Somethings going on, as Dany Bahar is in Tokyo after presenting Toyota Motor Corporation President Akio Toyoda with a Elise. This was a commemorative gift from Lotus to celebrate their past and future relationship with Toyota. With Cosworth a partner with Group Lotus this could lead to the Esprit having a tuned version of the LFA engine.

The Toyota engine for Team Lotus next year could be true, but Lotus have held many talks with Renault.

Looks like Lotus are building on the relationship with Toyota, while using Cosworth to provide tuning to give Lotus a good chance of taking on the big boys!

Edited September 17, 2010 by Evolution&Aura=Evora

[NedaSay]

I don't see how Lotus could get just hydraulics and gearbox to work with the Renault V8!

It's either everything Toyota or everything Renault! With the engine freeze still in efect the Toyota V8 may prove just as good as any other engine!

Toyota may like to find a client for its Cologne based motorsport arm! Group Lotus could get the perfect PR!

[USAndretti42]

F1 reporter, Joe Saward doesn't give much credence to the story as he believes the engine would be too expensive. While the Toyota engine was, I believe, commended for its power, I don't know how economical it is, a major consideration now refuelling is not allowed.

We will know in a week or so.

[simonb]

No reason why it cannot be a Renault drivetrain but with Toyota motorsport visibly helping Lotus F1. Shame that it is Cologne, but I suspect it is better set up than Hingham. Getting a Toyota link in F1 might help if Lotus are getting a modern engine for the Esprit

Edited September 18, 2010 by simonb

[NedaSay]

Uh I don't think Team Lotus will move away from Hingham!

At least not to go to Cologne!

[Iconic Ride]

I think you're spot on, Simon. That's pretty much the conclusion I've reached for the moment. Of course, it's all conjecture at this point, but fun to speculate nonetheless!

As Trevor says, we'll know shortly--or at least have a better set of facts/rumours/innuendos to work with, and further ponder, muse, and ruminate.

(However, Trevor is currently in the process of tracking down his daughter's Chemistry professor (something to do with changing the rules of the game after the fact), and may or may not be available for automotive consultations)