Traction control or LSD?

[Trevsked]

Having changed the tyres on my v8 and still suffering from lack of traction in the first three gears, what are opinions on fitting the Racelogic traction control system and has anyone fitted a Quaife LSD?. I have searched on the advice from Simon350S and read through posts on the subject but what I have read is mostly back in 2006 so ask for current opinions?.

Fitting a Quaife LSD is currently appealing as it appeals to my mechanical bias, I do tend to shy away from electronics as it is a black art and I would prefer not to mess with the wiring. Having said that I imagine the diff will give the gearbox a harder time and the traction control would git it an easier time if anything.

Trevor.

[Vulcan Grey]

I put a Quaife in my SE this summer. I've driven it on track and street.

I've also driven my SE (pre-LSD) and an X180-R back to back on street and track with a ZF LSD.

I wouldn't have an Esprit without LSD anymore (especially for the track).

I will say though that I have been in a 2-Eleven on the track (driven by Nick Adams), and the traction control felt a lot like a mechanical LSD. It did a great job!

Edited February 21, 2011 by Vulcan Grey

[Simon350S]

Trevor, I know we talked about this quite a bit on Saturday.

My preference to acheive what your after is the TC route.

The LSD would give you better drive our of corners by limiting the inside wheel from spinning but the whole nature of an LSD makes the possibility of spinning out even higher as your more likely to loose traction on both wheels simultaniously and then the back will simply spin our of control. In the wet especially this could be disasterous!

The TC system is the only way you can realistically achieve what your looking for as it will cut the power to the engine and help you regain traction.

LSD you would still have to be very careful with your right foot and be keen on the steering wheel to catch the car should the inevitable happen. You'll end up being even more nervous than you are now! They are really only any good for track use, you'll see very little benefit on the road.

TC you can leave your foot planted and the car will sort itself out mostly which result in a much more relaxed you.

The Racelogic is fully adjustable so you can have a mad day with it switched off on a nice dry track, or go on a hoon with the other Esprit boys in the rain, turn your TC up to the max and have a very relaxed drive about knowing your going to get home in one piece.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Simon350S

[pete]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=27&ved=0CD8QFjAGOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lotustalk.com%2Fforums%2Ff129%2Fracelogic-6298%2F&rct=j&q=racelogic&ei=suhiTbyDKMG28QPspeHxCA&usg=AFQjCNHM-dP0bl8RTyfH9ywm_uYSziMh9Q&cad=rja

Trevor this american lotus site has some discussion on the racelogic system

[Vulcan Grey]

I agree with what Simon said above.

The LSD can make the rear end slide in a way that can catch you off guard if your aren't familiar with how it works. THere have been some Esprits owners who installed one and then spun, wrecking the car the very first time they drove in the rain. However I never had any trouble spinning the esprit on the track (in the rain) with the open differential...

If you do get an LSD, I would advise you explore the new limits carefully.

The LSD does not add more wear and tear to the transmission, because it progressively transfers power from the wheel without traction to the wheel with traction. it is actually a bit safer for the transmission in general use, however you wouldn't want to apply full power over a jump where the wheels leave the ground, since when they come back onto the ground they'll get a pretty big shock!

I can feel the LSD on the street, even at sane speeds, especially in tight 90deg corners, overall the car feels like it has much more traction. I do not feel any increase in understeer due to the LSD, though my car has almost no understeer (only when i forget to do a weight transfer before turn-in).

I also put a Torsen type Honda Integra Type-R LSD in my non type-R, and that thing makes driving in the snow so much better! Front wheel drive though.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Vulcan Grey

[Simon350S]

Just read that link on lotus talk. LOL

There's a good reason I only come here!

[Trevsked]

Guys,

Interesting opinions. Had a brief read of the American thread and didn't take long before getting fed up with what I saw as B/S. So is the best way forward to fit both I wonder?. Does seem at the moment that the traction control would perhaps suit me better but I really don't like the idea of fiddling with the ecu and electrics but at the same time not keen on spliting a perfectly good gearbox as I would then have to replace the clutch as a matter of course and probably second gear synchro too.

When I suggested there would be more strain on the box if I fitted an LSD I was thinking that a conventional diff limits the power going through a gearbox when one wheel starts to spin. As opposed to an LSD that gives more grip therefore transferring more torque through the already weak second gear and input shaft?

Trevor.

[Vulcan Grey]

BTW, here's my Quaife LSD install. There is quite a bit involved...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lotusse/LotusQuaifeLSD#

[rogerch]

Just a suggestion. If it's all about spinning up the inside rear wheel, you could just try stiffening the front roll resistance, ie, the ARB and/or it's mounts.

I've recently done this to my 88 Stevens, I found the front rolled too much on entry, but the flow on to stiffening it was less tendency to spin up the inside rear wheel on exit.

And the car feels a whole lot better, (or suites my style better)

[Bibs]

The Sport350 already has a stiffer front ARB and Trev is experiencing straight line loss of traction.

Trev, in the 3 months and 3,000 miles I drove 007 I didn't experience this at all and I did drive the car pretty hard in snow, ice, hail, fog, typhoon and rain (I took it to Norfolk twice).

Perhaps I could jump in yours for a comparison, or I could arrange for you to have a go of 007?

[oneshot]

I've only experienced straight line loss of traction in 2nd & 3rd when the roads are wet. In the dry I don't have a problem.

[Bibs]

My SE lights up the rears in 2nd and 3rd if the floor is just damp and it's boosting fully but it's certainly not problematic enough to warrant TC or an LSD which is why I'd like to experience what's happening in Trevs car.

[Trevsked]

As Oneshot describes it's second and third gears in the damp that are the problem, straight line and overtaking.

Bibs,

Interesting that 007 doesn't do it. Can you tell me or find out what tyres are fitted and what gearbox oil is being used? I wonder if a change of gear oil will modify the way the diff works.

Trevor.

[Bibs]

It's on PZeros, the OEM tyres (relatively new ones, not originals - I know as I sourced them. They are the ones with pzero written in yellow). I'll call Morland Jones but 100% expect it to be Taf-X in the gearbox.

[oneshot]

Mine is on Michelin Pilot Sport wait Taf-X in the gearbox.

[Vulcan Grey]

Not saying Trev is doing this, but...

I was once asked to drive a 2003 V8 for a local owner because he thought his clutch was slipping. So I drove the car and it felt good, the clutch was grabby in the lower gears and didn't slip whit high boost in 4th or 5th (oops didn't notice the officer following me).

So the owner wanted to show me what it was doing. He takes the driver's position and while driving mid corner he pushes in the clutch floors the throttle and dumps the clutch spinning one of the rear tires... I ask him why he would do that?!!!! And then tell him that was his inside rear wheel spinning due to the open differential, not the clutch!!

[Trevsked]

Vulcan,

Good story and can imagine the look on your face when he did it .

When I used to do track days on bikes there was one know all that once told me of his problem where the was hitting the rev limiter before the end on the straight (VFR750 @ Mallory Park). I of course looked quite shocked that he could get any where near 160mph on a relatively short circuit. When I said "what, in top?" he looked equally surprised and said "of course not, 4th". That was when I walked the other way.

Trevor.

[braziers]

i run racelogic traction and i can dail up for wet and dry conditions. its great just plant your foot down no traction loss even in the wet on roundabouts. simply turn it off if you dont want it. make driving a lot safer when damp