Second Gear Grinding When Engaging With Engine Revved

[pasha2891]

Hi everyone, so I'll try to be as specific as possible. With the engine running and normal driving every gear works fine except second gear. With the engine ideling going into second there is a very small crunch but barely noticeable. Once in second gear, starting the car in second from a standstill works fine. If the car is standing and in neutral, clutch engaged(pedal up), I rev up the engine then push down the clutch pedal and try to shift into second then loud crunching noise, I can't even get it into gear(I was too scared to try to force it). Also if I turn off the engine and leave the car in second and try to push it, the car won't move. Lastly downshifting from third to second while in motion causes a loud crunch.

From one of the post suggestions here, I tried reversing with the handbrake on to give it some torque incase the second gear synchro was stuck but that did no good.

I'm not an expert but from reading the forums I'm thinking that when I'm shifting into second gear the reverse gear might be getting hit. Any help on diagnosing this before I take it to the dealer would be very appreciated.

I have a 2000 V8 if that's relevant.

[Vulcan Grey]

broken dog teeth on 2nd gear synchro hub or on the gear.

DO not drive it! the gear pieces will rattle around and cause more damage.

Transmission must be removed and taken apart.

[jonwat]

And copious amounts of money poured in

[Bibs]

You've just missed out, Lotus sold a brand new gearbox in the sale for £1000 recently.

This is an expensive problem unfortunately. While it's out (8 hours to remove/refit) you may as well fit a new clutch which isn't cheap either. Where are you based, perhaps we can recommend a specialist?

[mike_sekinger]

Poor luck on the gearbox woes.

I have one brand new and one fresh full rebuild V8 gearbox (UN1-027) that are available.

4000 for the brand new

2000 for the freshly rebuilt

You can email me if you are interested?

mike_sekinger@hotmail.com

Just notived that there is also some on Ebay:

Ebay V8 gearbox

SWCL V8 gearboxes

Cheers,

Mike S

Edited July 8, 2011 by mike_sekinger

[pasha2891]

I'm in the states, in the chicago area. If you guys know any specialists around here I would appreciate it. I know there is a lotus dealer in the area.

[larryk]

Along with finding a lotus specialist in your area wouldn't be a bad idea to make several calls to get some idea of availablity and prices in the US. I recently purchased a UN1 027 from Ralph at rsmotorsports@verizon.net . They are on the east coast 201-750-0700. Also you could call JAE lotus parts and speak with Jay or Jeff . there # is 805-967-5767. These guys have more contacts in the US than probably anyone.. good luck You may have to do some shipping so keep the weight under 150 lbs and it can go UPS small delivery truck prices. Take note that some Lotus shops/dealers are very exspensive so check around spending......may be able to pick up one complete for the price of the repair, then fix yours at your leisure and end up with 2. good luck

[pasha2891]

Thanks for the suggestion Larry. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out. If it makes more sense to repair or replace.

[FastZilla]

I know this is an old post - here's my "adventure" after suffering a very similar failure:

I'm down in TX - Just got my GTO "built" trans in (not leaking out the axle seals this time) after suffering a failure exactly as yours. I did all the work myself. There are many, many quirks to doing this that honestly many, many quality shops will not catch and cost you hours and $$$ to "work thru". I did the whole swap myself. If you have all the correct parts you can swap the trans in a long Saturday or easily in a full weekend. Be prepared to spend no less than $10k USD. There is a HUGE difference between the GTO "built" trans and the stock Lotus trans - I consider myself lucky all I suffered was the 2nd gear syncro (that's my guess - I haven't split the case yet). Do not drive car any further as others have mentioned - oil & metal = grinding compound - the big chunks can even break other gears as well.

My suggestion - call around look for a shop to rebuild (this trans is similar to a Porsche trans so try not only the Lotus shops but Porsche, Ferrari, etc. - folks used to dealing with transaxles. Since we are in the US - transaxles are not that common by comparison). I was quoted $10k for a stock "rebuild" by my Lotus dealer - then they called back and found another shop in OH that dropped it to the $6-8k range. But at the end of the day you will wind up with exactly what you have now - a weak transmission that will most likely break in the exact same way. For roughly the same money you can buy a no-core "bulletproof" trans from GTO with the Quaife ATB and better gear ratios & a complete new clutch with stronger springs for the same money - install it yourself & have the stock trans to either sell to recoup costs or rebuild/keep.

You can save $3k plus by NOT getting the Quaife ATB (limited slip), clutch, etc. The Quaife makes a HUGE difference over the open stock diff. You can keep your foot burried in the power and not worry about the rear going squirly like it does stock.

[stugilmour]

Realize this is an old thread.  This is exactly the same issue I am having with my 2000 Esprit V8, although not quite as bad as the OP.  New to the car and the topic, so adding some current info and trying to find suppliers in NA / Canada.  Any help appreciated.

 

Contacted Jeff at JAE today.  They do not stock the upgrade, but he provided contact info for a US supplier Holloway Performance.  I have got in touch with them and waiting to hear back on availability; their web site info is presently a year or two old.  I appears their upgrade is slightly different from the GTO upgrade as it uses stock bearing sizes and does not require machining of the case.  It uses stock clutch assembly.  In my email I have asked about the Quaife LS, but it is not listed in the kit brochure.

 

http://hollowayperformance.com/

 

Jeff also provided contact info for the Quaife distributor for the US.  Unfortunately JAE no longer stock the LS due to the change to an exclusive Quaife distributor in the US.    It appears the US distributor is wholesale only, so trying to find a supplier with an account set up that will ship to Canada.  Any help appreciated; might be easier to get from the UK?  Again, I am completely new to this issue so any help appreciated.

 

http://www.motovicity.com/products/quaife.aspx

 

Have also contacted GTO by email.  Not sure on present supply availability; waiting to here back.  Looks like (from their web site and FastZilla's post above) that they can provide a complete trans-axle c/w the 2nd gear upgrade and the Quaife LS, which I must say would be great to find our side of the pond.

 

http://www.gtoracing.co.uk/

 

Thanks for any help on this one.  I would like to get stuff lined up in the next few weeks so I can get the work done in April or May.  Having read some of the excellent cautionary posts on this, I really can`t see doing a Track Day with the shifting as poor as it is now.

[Vulcan Grey]

Quaife LSD is a worthwhile upgrade, love mine.  I imported mine to CO from GTO in Wales, shipping and duties were not bad.

 

Not sure why you want or need the Holloway or GTO box upgrade, I do wonder about alignment issues and bearing problems with a one piece shaft though.

[Günter]

*GTO* is what most owners with this project in mind use in Europe, as Derek Bell is not longer in this field of UN1 boxes

 

..some years ago Holloway was promoted by US-users (promoters?) within this forum -so it is also known within the Lotus-world and as such within this forum.

 

As you see by the not 'up to date' page there, Holloway planed it in some way as a limmited run -also regarding the 'note' on the page to rise interest for the first customers   

(anywhere, there are no new Esprit produced anymore so the group of possible customers is allready limited   )

 

..if you already plan to do the full thing, contact GTO, as those tend to react on mail-request a little faster ..even if you, like I'm, just want to get informed on pricing -without concrete investement plans

 

 

*as you are in Canada (I know it is 'slightly' bigger than Germany...)  -contact MarkTC, as he likes to do DIY works on Esprit  !!   ..he could help you in some ways

Edited January 28, 2013 by Günter

[stugilmour]

Thanks Travis. 

 

I have managed to find the Quaife LSD locally.  The specialist doing the work  has one in stock.

 

Want the upgrade because right now the box is diabolical to shift.  Basically because it is so expensive to remove the box and service the clutch that would like to do the upgrade at the same time.

 

Looking things over on the 'net I think the upgrade has merit; tightens the first / second ratios reducing strain in the synchro and strengthens the box.  No first hand experience with it mind you, and nothing readily available locally to compare.  Maybe will hear from others that have made the change?

 

Other part that is turning out to be difficult to source is the second gear synchro.  Can anyone confirm the upgrade kits do not include the synchro, and that it is the same stock part even with the ratio changes?  Last thing we want is to get the whole deal apart and be missing stuff.

[Günter]

if you not a 'spanner man' ..or so much in DIY works:

use any type of tech-reference websites, synchros are simply a section of the gearing ..in simple words placed on the side of the mentioned gearing   -so the size of the gearing can vary, even with the same dimension of the synchro system

 

Anyway there is no need to invest into high-prices for a clutch change, you can do it in front of your garage (or in the garage, if it is cold outside)  ..it is one of the easy task in Esprit (V8 ) ownership  ..you will find descriptions within the forum as well as in the workshop-manual  

Edited January 29, 2013 by Günter

[stugilmour]

Thanks Gunter.  Very helpful.

 

Understand from Jeff at JAE our side of the pond the second gear synchro parts are presently difficult to source, so looking for alternate sources.  Don't want to start the job without all parts available as I will be driving roughly 12 hours to my available specialist to get the work done, and my wife would be pretty ticked if i stayed out of town waiting on parts.    I am getting some other work done at the same time, so all good.  We need to replace front shocks, align the car, adjust the cam belts, and do a general service.

 

Although I have done some wrenching on my other Lotus, I am not competent to repair this gearbox, clutch, linkage, etc. whether upgraded or just leaving stock and replacing the synchro, adjusting the linkage, etc.  Due to the distance to my specialist we will be putting in new replacement parts for the clutch anyway.  I didn't realize the trans-axle comes out with the engine in place; I figured it was pulled as a unit, so what do I know?  I have not received my Workshop Manual yet, but expect it in a week or two.

 

I have emailed GTO (a couple of times actually) like you suggested and hoping to hear back this week.  Would also like to know if they offer completely built up modded gearboxes with the Quaife installed, as that might save a bunch of shop time and avoid being caught missing some required part.  Pretty sure this is not the cheapest option, but it will be 20 degrees below zero Celsius here this week, so home wrenching has it's own challenges.

 

Been reading up on the upgrades, and it looks like the revised ratio's in the Holloway and GTO kits are subtly different, which is kind of interesting.  Any reports of experience with either one?

 

<edit>  Just got an email from Craig at Holloway Performance.  He sold his last kit a few months ago to an Esprit owner right in my area!  He is not planning making any more kits at this time as it took several years to sell out.  Will be pursuing the GTO option I guess, unless I can find one of the kits locally.

 

Cheers!

Edited January 29, 2013 by stugilmour

[Günter]

I often wounder how someone in the age of 'global networks' can think that there is an 'our side of the pond' ..

 

as yeah, you are there physically, but you can simply logon into the web and source them out from pages who deal with all this stuff (UN-1/Renault classics) within the net .. can you ?

 

Only thing from your list that needs assistance of a garage for good results would be suspension-alignment  .. as even the gearbox you can pull out @home and send it over to the specialised shop..if needs are there. 

 

Suspension dismantling is easy, and if you know (or learn) how  -you would even not need a spring-compressor/clamp for the rear end ..as this can be undone without (if factory/stock spring rates are fitted) ..

I only need them on the front for example.

 

cambelt adjustment can be done in your own garage, the tools for this will be done in DIY too (I have often described over here in the board how easy it was for me to source suitable materials within the garbadge box on the garage floor) ..and you can even download usefull 'frequency-meter' apps/software for PDA/smartphone devices for free from the net (look out for tuneIt for PDA/mobile .. Mike Sekinger. .. as well as I  and others over here have used it, and it works perfect with such devices who already have a 'build in microphone')

 

Workshop-manual for the whole S4 series is a free download from the net, again ..if you not fancy a 'booktype' version simply download it and only print out the pages on recycling paper if you need them ..so you have no wories if it gets dirty after you finish your weekend-work.

just one of many you can find if you use a search engine -and try 'reverse search' within pictures..

 

http://www.franzose.de/de/Home/

 

http://www.produkte24.com/cy/der-franzose-automobiltechnik-5471/renault-ersatzteile-2011-31362.html

http://www.renault5turbo.de/forum/turbos-und-umbauten/wiederaufbau-turbo-2/200/

Edited January 29, 2013 by Günter

[stugilmour]

Thanks again Gunter.

 

Just noticed your note about Mark T-C.  Yes, I have been in touch with him (spoke with him before buying the car actually).  He has installed a couple of the Holloway kits in the past.  Unfortunately he is not working on other folks cars at this point, and does not have a kit available.  He is about 2 1/2 hours from me, which is pretty much considered 'local' here.    He is contacting a chap that has one to see if he will part with it, but at this point I am assuming he bought it to use it himself as he also has several performance upgrade parts which probably make the gearbox upgrade prudent.

 

Still hoping to hear from GTO.  Will try phoning tomorrow; I am too late today for time zones.  Anyone have the GTO mod installed in their V8?  Would be very interested in opinions, any issues with the install, and whether any machining of the MY 2000 V8 gearbox would be required to complete the install.

 

Cheers!