Top Gear - New Series

[NedaSay]

I liked the Sesto elemento thingy and my brain cannot help thinking that the Gallardo replacement better be a slightly less carbon aggressive than this.

 

The caravan stuff is just TG recycling their disgust for caravans, Pretty happy the CX5 "won" even if it didn't, as it is a pretty good hauler and a good drive.

[Bibs]

To be fair, the Lambo was at the Paris motorshow in 2010 when Lotus had the 5 cars so it's not a new model. Wonder what the point of leaving the spin in was, are they saying it's good/bad?

[Bee]

Loved the overall message in the sign-off piece but was that some kind of calculated insult? It seems ridiculous to show virtually every British built motoring entity imaginable and totally blank out Lotus who have a heritage and prestige far beyond 99% of those featured! Really don't want to sound like some snubbed fan-boy but genuinely don't understand Lotus' exclusion ...

[Eglise]

Loved the overall message in the sign-off piece but was that some kind of calculated insult? It seems ridiculous to show virtually every British built motoring entity imaginable and totally blank out Lotus who have a heritage and prestige far beyond 99% of those featured! Really don't want to sound like some snubbed fan-boy but genuinely don't understand Lotus' exclusion ...

Lotus 'brand' got a mention as an F1 constructor ... In a piece that was a tight fit at the end of the program no time to nuance the relationship between F1 and road cars

[steve930]

could it be due to the complete lack of PR  skill within lotus?

[Bee]

Could be, Steve - I'd really hate to think it was because PR at Lotus were slow on the uptake when everyone else in the industry leapt at the chance to invite TG round, and made their product available.

[mayevora]

Loved the overall message in the sign-off piece - It seems ridiculous to show virtually every British built motoring entity imaginable and totally blank out Lotus who have a heritage.

Followed by a 60 minute programme dedicated to how wonderful German motor manufacturers are :/

[red vtec]

It was a complete smoke and mirrors article, yes the vehicles are made in the UK, and yes it's british workers. But the reality is that most of the companies are foreign owned, and they could pull the plug/move production abroad. It was typical BBC left wing bollocks. F1 is always promoted as a british exercise and it is but the reality is employes a small number compared to the big foreign car manufacturers such as Audi, BMW etc. No offence to any of the skilled workers, but the majority of these brands are british only in name.

[Kimbers]

I too was shocked at the final piece. I was watching it thinking "the Lotus's will be on in a minute...here they come...." At the end I was amazed that they weren't included.

 

Now call me crazy but has Top Gear gone Anti Lotus? When MJK was there and they brought out the new Evora the one programme that dad INSISTED they got on was Top Gear.

 

I just don't understand why they haven't reviewed the new Exige, which, lets face it, is right up their street as an insanely fast toy. Or the Evora S.

 

To add insult to injury they showed the Morgans last night, who make less cars than Lotus, yet didn't show Lotus.

 

Does anyone know if Lotus responded? Did they take part?

I thought last nights programme was inane and absolutely rubbish. Yes, a great review of the new Footballers car, Range Rover Sport. But the new London Bus? Really?

 

Shockingly rubbish

[Bibs]

When we did the 'Get the Exige on Top Gear' campaign I was told that they weren't that fussed as TG just ruin cars anyway, or words to that effect. 

[steve930]

I still think a complete lack of pr on the behalf of lotus. hell at times they haven't even passed much info on to their official community partner!. for all we know this may have been filmed earlier in the year when lotus were on a low ebb

Listening to Chris Evans this morning, he mentioned Jeremy Clarkson was fuming about bbc2 showing the German programme straight after

[Red Baron]

Does anyone know if Lotus responded? Did they take part?

 

They did take part.

In this film you can see the Elise, Evora and Exige S V6 in the parade.

 

So they already know that the Exige S V6 exist... 

[Kimbers]

So they showed the Morgans at least 3 times, including driving out of their factory, yet didn't show the Lotus's even once.

 

And did anyone notice that in the map with all the Car Factories on it, there wasn't one in Norfolk?

[Eglise]

remember that Charles Morgan is ex ITN - he would be quick to grasp the opportunity. Lotus were probably stuck behind a lorry load of carrots on the A11 

[Kimbers]

Haha, thanks Richard, though it's normally a crap spreader that I get stuck behind.

[red vtec]

is the eagle e-type actually a manufacturer?  I thought the were basically restored/reenginered e-types

[Cathalm]

It was a complete smoke and mirrors article, yes the vehicles are made in the UK, and yes it's british workers. But the reality is that most of the companies are foreign owned, and they could pull the plug/move production abroad. It was typical BBC left wing bollocks. F1 is always promoted as a british exercise and it is but the reality is employes a small number compared to the big foreign car manufacturers such as Audi, BMW etc. No offence to any of the skilled workers, but the majority of these brands are british only in name.

 

I have to challenge that view, which is very common in the UK it seems. Look, what's your goal in buying a British vehicle? I'm guessing that it's to buy a product of British engineering, according to a British philosophy and perhaps even that it be built in the UK and create UK jobs. Very few people care about where the money goes since that doesn't affect any of these things. Still fewer people seem to grasp what they are talking about when it comes to "foreign owned" either. 

 

Major foreign car companies are publicy listed. That means that if you are concerned about ownership then you have the opportunity to become an owner and those profits will flow to you. Ownership of all major multi-nationals (which is what these are) is split over a vast range of nationalities. They only get to call themselves German, or Japanese or whatever because that is their origin, or where the management team is based (much like the British companies you claim are foreign). In addition, many of these companies will be owned in large amounts by the financial institutions from the UK, its likely your pension fund owns chunks of these manufacturers. They will require funding in the billions and you guessed it, those arrangements are highly likely to come from the world centre of trade in London. 

 

It's very fashionable in the UK to moan about how there are no companies in the UK anymore but i';s nonsense, UK manufacturing has grown since the war, we have simply got smarter and increased the service and financial sectors which in reality create the demand, own and control these manufacturers. The collapse of Leyland often colours the views of the patriotic who with the greatest will in the world, don't actually understand what a company is, how it works or what is meant by ownership in thsi sense. "Oh Jag is an Indian company because TATA bought it", but who in fact owns TATA? Hundreds of international entities and thousands of individuals from the 4 corners of the earth.

 

You own a Lotus presumably because you enjoy Colin Chapmans engineering vision and that of his company in Britain. Don't fret about national ownership, it doesn't make any sense at all if you know what you're talking about (not say to you personally don't, i'm generalising really). I believe back in the rosy specs good old days when Colin was around that Lotus was publicly listed... and thus not owned by the British per se.

[red vtec]

Under your thoughts their are no companies that belong to a single country they are all world companies if they are floated on the stock exchange. So using your thought stream, the turnover of BMW/AUDi has no affect on the economy of Germany as it's spread amongst the share holders. But it clearly does have an effect on the German economy.

 

Your argument is counter intuitive as you are once again promoting the UK as a financial/service institution. We are saying there is a lack of manufacturing, the issue is that people should be concerned where the money goes.

 

As for having a Lotus, I own a Lotus because I can afford one. If I could afford one I'd have a Lambo. I'm not a died in the wool Chapman lover, infact dare I say its's rumoured the man was a bit of a rogue (not that that's a bad thing).

[Cathalm]

Correct, there are no public public companies that ultimately belong to one country. Private companies is a different story of course. 

 

It contributes to the German economy because of the taxes paid in Germany, the wages paid and then spent onwards in Germany and the all the transactions and economic activities that the German operations and their employees carry out because of that companies existence. In the same way a JLR factory in Liverpool also has these effects for the UK economy and that's why governments are not fussed about registered headquarters locations on inwards investors. That's what the economy is, the total of economic transactions that take place, not simply the amount of cash held in accounts in a certain location. 

 

You say we should be concerned as to where the money goes (meaning the profits, the rest goes into the uk mainly). Ok be concerned, just understand that the money doesn't go to Germany or Japan or wherever it goes to the shareholders (the owners) which are anywhere and everywhere. Probably you are by proxy one of them if you have a pension. 

 

UK manufacturing hasn't declined overall it has grown, it has declined a share of of the economy because other areas have grown faster. UK as a financial institution is good thing, having a better better balance while keeping the financial services is better still and that should be our target.  

[Kimbers]

You are correct that Lotus was publically owned (as a PLC) in Colins day. In fact I had some shares as did my brothers and my father. Colin was still the majority shareholder though! As indeed Ratan Tata is at Tata (I used to work for them and Dad was an advisor and friend of Mr Tata, so I do know what I am saying).

 

I sort of agree with both of you. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Jag etc etc are all foreign owned as in they are owned by mainly foreign institutions/companies and not quoted on OUR FTSE. That said, they pay wages to UK workers and pay taxes in the UK so, happy to have them! Virtually every car manufacturer, even if they are not built here, have a separate UK company. Honda UK, Nissan UK, etc do make the cars here so ultimately they are British cars in my eyes. Companies like Peugeot UK, Kia UK etc though they have a sales company here, don't have a manufacturing base. Hence are "Foreign" cars in my eyes (whatever foreign means these days).

 

I would love that our old car companies were still UK owned, run, and built. But lets look at Jag. It was a bit of a failure and on the way out when Tata bought it, now look at it! Making cars that I really really want.............that F type is stunning.

 

There are some companies that are still state owned. So Renault, for example, can be seen as truly French (and that's prob why they are failing so abysmally). But the majority are owned by financial institutions all over the world.

[SteveSmith]

Getting back to the thread topic, I've just watched last night's Top Gear - actually, I've only watched the first half of last night's Top Gear so far - and I've already seen 3 Lotus cars featured...

The Lotus Esprit on the stamp and an Elise and 340R buzzing around Castle Combe with the bus.

I *think* that's more models by a single manufacturer than any other so far in the programme.

#justsayin

[mdavies]

Sharing the disappointment that, for whatever reason, Lotus Cars did not get a second or two more on vision, and noting the discussion above regarding the financial structures and ownership of the companies - lots of us, indeed - I want to emphasise my view that, irrespective of those aspects, the “Brit Built” message was far more significant and one of the most effective bits of PR for Britain's capabilities that I can recall.

 

It will be seen around the world, in countries where the message “we can and still do” has the potential to influence mind sets that matter regarding direct trade and investment and also in those where there may be little but aspiration towards the skills that were show-cased, but where there can be great value in reminding their peoples that the development of their own countries can safely be augmented by British brains and hands.

 

Top Gear may be criticised for much, but I admit to being touched by feelings of surprise and genuine pride at that parade, with the music and horse guard elements being no more than entirely deserved. Well done Top Gear.   

 

[Bibs]

A comment from Lotus on facebook...

 

An Aspen White Evora Sports Racer, a Chrome Orange Elise S & a Laser Blue Exige S were featured on the Mall. 

Unfortunately no mention of Lotus by TG and we seem to have ended up on their cutting room floor.

 

[Kimbers]

So they responded to criticisms that they don't do enough marketing and when they make an effort like that they get nowhere!

 

Nice to see TG being fair...... Frankly I would much rather have seen more of the UK manufacturing segment and screw the stupid London Bus review. At least they could have given a fair shout to everyone who turned up!

[The Pits]

I think Lotus were short changed on Top Gear but hopefully it will be enough to make a few serial Porsche buyers realise that buying a car built in Britain might not be quite the hardship some imagine it to be.

 

The 'Das Auto' program that followed said that the Germans sell more cars here than anywhere else (must be 'per head' surely?). Either way, very sadly, British Marques are more highly regarded outside the UK than in it.

 

Lotus's history and the fact that they are built in the UK is a big part of the appeal to me. There are reasonable question marks over British management in general but the evidence for our engineering talent is overwhelming and Lotus has long embodied this in regard to road cars. I've often thought that a Porsche on Lotus development money would be beyond dreadful whereas a Lotus on Porsche money would be an overnight game-changer. That's why it saddens me to see the brand being unappreciated, especially here on home soil. Just a few % of UK Porsche sales would be enough to secure Lotus's future. Right now, Lotus have to be twice as good for half the price to even be considered. The Evora is a bit better (a lot better in my opinion!) than a 911 for a bit less money. The result is there for all to see.

 

Regardless of who owns what it has to matter where a car is built. And I do get huge satisfaction knowing that cars as cool as the Aston Martin One77, DBS, V12 Vantage, McLaren F1, MP412C, Aerial Atom, Caterham 7, F-type, XKR, XFR, Elise, Exige and Evora were designed and built in the UK.

 

That said, I'd still buy a Lotus made in Malaysia just because I've driven everything and owned a few too many and I keep coming back to Lotus. I can't get enough of 'em!