Lotus in the post DB era

[DanR]

Who's responsible for the Exige S? I reckon it's one of the most exciting toys about these days.

[ramjet]

I agree with the sentiment that I think Lotus may well come out with something that will get everyone going. Call it gut feel or whatever.

If not, why would DRB have bothered?

There is a plan. There has to be. Otherwise a lot of money has been thrown down a deep chasm.

 

I look forward to the next few months. Honestly though, whatever they come up with will be currently outside my means. (unfortunately )

[NedaSay]

Who's responsible for the Exige S? I reckon it's one of the most exciting toys about these days.

Exige V6 was already under development when MJK left the company, DB finished the work but was sacked and the first few cars were sold under AF stewardship. I heard  that both Exige V6roadster and coupe are is selling in good numbers. It's a shame they can't be sold for anything but track use around here. The Exige V6 roadster has California tattooed all over!

 

If the new boss wants to bump the sales number quick and does realize that he needs 2 years to get a new "global Elige" out of the gates of Hethel... Could someone suggest him to provide adequate paperwork and tech for NHTSA homologation, it's only smart airbag that's stopping the car from entering the market, for one or maybe two year but they'll sell at least 400 of these easy and their price will skyrocket when the production of the Exige ends.

Lotus would make a fat profit on every car sold has the airbag investment would be recouped not only on Exige but also Evora and future cars. Considering how the price for a basic Elise S is borderline ridiculous here... Exige would resell for a fortune. It would be a win-win situation. Lotus would make money on new car sold, any buyer would have a collectible in hands, it would go miles restoring the image of the brand.

Edited May 19, 2014 by NedaSay

[auRouge]

It is an exciting time. With new leadership comes new initiatives.

I just hope it's an everyday car. A car that Doctors and Accountants will buy in numbers to generate profits. Yes, Golf and tennis players instead of Petrolhead trackday enthusiasts like you and me who are not going to save Lotus!

A everyday car with an options list to make money!. I'm not saying I agree with it but it makes money! Decent fuel economy (through lightness) with NAV and leather in a car that people can use to go to work in or let their partner borrow without hesitation. An easy car to drive which doesn't scare them or make them feel awkward. A boot for weekend stuff (Evora size minimum!).

Without a decent global volume car Lotus will never do itself justice.

As for this statement:-

If you ask Bahar, Lotus simply changed its mind after talking to its customers. "No one is going to buy a $200,000 sports car with a Toyota engine in it," Bahar said.

The masses who might actually buy this car have spoken... What a narrow minded view, if the BHP and reliability is there what would you rather own? A 991 GT3’s engine with a bolt on the con rod ( 2 cars caught fire) coming loose and the Con rod going through the crankcase spilling oil onto the exhaust (bang) bye bye car. Or an efficient Japanise engine that doesn't even consume any oil?!!

DB had the vision and should have been kept in charge of marketing and product development but the overall decisions on which car to develop first and which suppliers to use should have been well and truly NOT anything to do with him. Perfect vision without any business sense! A Maverick who crashed and burned all of Lotus's resources.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I hope you're right... nothing in past 2 years has given me the confidence to think seriously about buying another Lotus, ignoring their customer base was a rather poor strategy if they expect the faithful to put their hands in their pockets one again.

 

Dany was a maverick but with a great understanding of what it would take to relaunch the brand on a global scale. DRB are obviously less ambitious, but it remains to be seen how far their ambition stretches beyond balancing the books. 

 

I'd love to see Lotus succeed though, no doubt  about it, put an Evora 2 in the showrooms, a Spyder or God forbid an entirely new car and I could be tempted.  I just need to see some concrete evidence that the past couple of years of silence is over and the company is moving forward doing what it should be doing, i.e. making world beating cars. 

[TBD]

Let's all not forget it was Proton who assigned DB and it was Proton that approved DB's five-year plan and it was Proton that secured the loans to fund the plan. It's true DB probably wasn't the right guy to manage the company, but that was not his decision.

 

Nonetheless, Jean-Marc seems to be better poised to tackle the job. Just wish he had the funds available that DB was given.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Agreed, but that was before Proton was purchased by DRB and I doubt they viewed Lotus as the most attractive part of the deal. 

[auRouge]

I hope you're right... nothing in past 2 years has given me the confidence to think seriously about buying another Lotus, ignoring their customer base was a rather poor strategy if they expect the faithful to put their hands in their pockets one again.

Dany was a maverick but with a great understanding of what it would take to relaunch the brand on a global scale. DRB are obviously less ambitious, but it remains to be seen how far their ambition stretches beyond balancing the books.

SV,

I admired his vision too. DB's line up was perfection.

They needed him but he needed someone like Jean-Marc to keep control of that brilliant wild line up. It's almost like DB's a bit of crazy artist at heart, an amazing but volatile businessman! A company like Lotus needs both. The vision was right, he just needed a billion or two to execute it!

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

That's a point, DB's line was world class, he cherry picked the best available and put together the team to do the job. I'm sure Jean-Marc will the do the best job he can, but he's got a lot of work to do as Lotus have been pretty much in limbo since DRB took over.

 

Can he appoint the right people, does he have the budget, is there even a grand plan?

 

All will be revealed, or maybe not given DRB's past record of sharing information and keeping the faithful inspired.    

[hedgerley]

As discussed on the thread about the JM appointment, I think he will be a steady hand on the tiller to keep DRB happy but he is definitely a car guy and an engineer to boot. I believe we will see some good stuff emerging from Hethel in the coming months/years. He acknowledges the enthusiasts base, the importance of TLF and the like in supporting the brand and how crucial the dealer network is. All will be getting his full attention in the coming months as Bibs will no doubt report shortly. But there is also a sense of realism in recognising the challenge ahead and how that will be overcome by building damn good cars!

 

As Kimbers mentioned, MJK rates him highly. And that's good enough for me.

[auRouge]

Just build this, market and price it PROPERLY. Please!

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

The Elan.... I'm sure that would sit on the Evora chassis nicely too! 

 

I await the announcement from new forum member 'Johhny M' 

[auRouge]

Yup, and it would be niggle free from lessons learnt from 5 years of Evora.

Offer different engines/transmission packages...

1.6-1.8 turbo

3.5 Supercharged from Evora/Exige

How can something that is that sexy not sell with a Lotus badge on it?

[Advantage]

I'd be gutted if something that sexy was delivered with a Toyota engine in it.

[benjamincalleja]

I don't mind if it has a Toyota engine because to be honest once lotus hands are done with the the head is unrecognisable, and those who get into the details knows that what matters. But I understand why those new to cars or less mechanically interested would say something like that.

Any argument about whether or not db was right or wrong or anywhere in between is irrelevant. A company must be able to balance the books and if it can't then the vision was wrong.

And I personally think the Elan concept looked more like a new esprit than the new esprit did. If they took the front half of the new élan and married it to the rear of the new esprit and kept the low side intake of the new Elan It would be a trillion times closer.

[TBD]

Ditch the Toystore, make it MQB-compatible and gain access to the largest selection of really good powerplants.

 

OK, but why should Audi/VW sell their engines to a successful Lotus?

[benjamincalleja]

My main issue to be honest is that the windows have a pyramid point, they should be flat. would make the esprit concept look much closer to an evolution of the esprit.

[NedaSay]

I'd be gutted if something that sexy was delivered with a Toyota engine in it.

This is the kind of comment that got  the introduction of Esprit delayed and got us a beautiful but vaporware V8!

 

Toyota/Lexus machinery is adequate and when tuned properly can be stunning  LF-A, IS-F, RC-F prove just that. Lotus should stick stick to Toyota as the Lexus engines are only going to get better and better and more suited to Lotus needs: a 2L turbo four is coming, smaller V6 are on the table, V8 are readily available. 

 

Why would VW group sell engines to Lotus ? Ok maybe they could make some extra money... But Lotus would be required to buy engines in massive numbers... And  wouldn't that make the cars a little more generic. Besides Lotus needs an engine/powertrain/electronics partnership that they are unlikely to get with VW group but they can still get that partnership with Toyota. 

 

Ford (with ecoboost) and Jaguar ( with ingenium) also have complete engine line ups that are suitable for Lotus and big advantage they are made locally.

 

TBD when you say to make the car MQB compatible, do you mean that Lotus should drop VVA and pay VW for their chassis architecture??? Why would Lotus do that!  MQB, which stands for Modularer Querbaukasten or Modular Transverse Matrix it is chassis tech not engine tech... Chassis tech designed to mass produce Golf, Polo, Lupo, Seats, Skodas  A1 and A3 on the same platform front engine front wheel drive. like this:

 

 

 

 

 

Lotus is mostly rear engined and rear wheel drive these days!!! And why would they pay royalties to VW when VVA is doing the same thing and allow for small volume cost effective manufacturing?

Edited May 19, 2014 by NedaSay

[Advantage]

This is the kind of comment that got  the introduction of Esprit delayed and got us a beautiful but vaporware V8!

 

 

And rightly so. I vote with my wallet. A flagship car can't have bitsa engine shipped into Hethel in crates. It needs to be developed and manufactured in-house. No question.

Anything else is a glorified kit car, no matter how good the motive power might be in its home element. If DB's Esprit/Elan or any of the concepts previously penned ended up with a BMW/Toyota/Audi lump or similar then they wouldn't have found space on my driveway.

 

It was bad enough back in the 90's explaining to people that, no, this V8 isn't a turbocharged Rover engine, or earlier in the 80's that, no, this isn't a Vauxhall slant four, let alone the thought of having to admit in 2015 that I have just spent £150k on a car whose maker couldn't design their own engine. That's a ridiculous notion. And one shared by many buyers of this type of car.

[Knightewolfe]

Just build this, market and price it PROPERLY. Please!

 

Just build this, market and price it PROPERLY. Please!

 

 

\And make triple-dammed sure it has a modern MANUAL transmission.  Hell, make a 6-speed manual THE go to base model transmission for this car before offering up a paddle-shifted DSG, and a slushbox automatic (better yet, screw putting and autobox in this car. Manual tranny is the way to go!!!)

[TBD]

This is the kind of comment that got  the introduction of Esprit delayed and got us a beautiful but vaporware V8!

 

Toyota/Lexus machinery is adequate and when tuned properly can be stunning  LF-A, IS-F, RC-F prove just that. Lotus should stick stick to Toyota as the Lexus engines are only going to get better and better and more suited to Lotus needs: a 2L turbo four is coming, smaller V6 are on the table, V8 are readily available. 

 

Why would VW group sell engines to Lotus ? Ok maybe they could make some extra money... But Lotus would be required to buy engines in massive numbers... And  wouldn't that make the cars a little more generic. Besides Lotus needs an engine/powertrain/electronics partnership that they are unlikely to get with VW group but they can still get that partnership with Toyota. 

 

Ford (with ecoboost) and Jaguar ( with ingenium) also have complete engine line ups that are suitable for Lotus and big advantage they are made locally.

 

TBD when you say to make the car MQB compatible, do you mean that Lotus should drop VVA and pay VW for their chassis architecture??? Why would Lotus do that!  MQB, which stands for Modularer Querbaukasten or Modular Transverse Matrix it is chassis tech not engine tech... Chassis tech designed to mass produce Golf, Polo, Lupo, Seats, Skodas  A1 and A3 on the same platform front engine front wheel drive. like this:

 

 

 

 

 

Lotus is mostly rear engined and rear wheel drive these days!!! And why would they pay royalties to VW when VVA is doing the same thing and allow for small volume cost effective manufacturing?

I specifically said MQB-compatible, not MQB. MQB also defines common set points for engine and transmission mounts, spacing of drivetrain components, et.al. This allow putting a wide range of engine /gearbox combinations, including hybrid into the car, i.e. you can go from a 3-cylinder to a V6 on the same chassis.

 

Should be easy to modify the VVA to use these common set points.

[softlips]

TBH I'd be less likely to purchase one if they produced their own engine.

Aston Martin are having to go elsewhere as they can't afford to develop their own, why would Lotus be able to?

[auRouge]

I'd be gutted if something that sexy was delivered with a Toyota engine in it.

I understand your sentiment Advantage but Lotus doesn't and won't have the cash for what your suggesting until it makes some serious money.

A car with a donor engine is better than no car at all and the end of Lotus.

To suggest that using a donor engine is like creating a very expensive kit car is a tad harsh, isn't it?!

Is a Zonda R with a Merc AMG engine a kit car?

In a perfect world yes, Lotus should aim to build it's own power plants but it's years away from that. That sort of project need hundreds of millions to do properly.. Even Porsche these days can't get it right and have suffered massive negative press.. Do you really want a TVR Speed Six? Powerful but is it reliable?!

Lotus should open up the book again and search for something special.

I still think DB biggest screw up was missing the boat setting up a Lotus/Renault partnership... A proper CEO would have accomplished this instead of living in la la land.

[auRouge]

Let me put it another way :-)

Would you still be upset if an Esprit pulled and sounded like this:-

I'd be happy if it were a Toyota.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Buying an engine in makes sense for Lotus, it's no bad thing for the owner either, something a little more tried and tested, half decent support and the lack of a bespoke lump should be reflected in the purchase price as well as servicing costs. It would be amazing if they could pull off a deal with McLaren/Ricardo for the 12C's twin turbo v8... highly unlikely though!