Newbie - what do you know/make of this S4?

[TimSportsTourer]

So, it's time for some updates. In summary, I don't yet have the car, and my patience is being sorely tried.

 

Gerald's inspection highlighted a number of issues. I met with the salesperson, and we went through the list of issues. Some of them won't manifest for a couple of years, and so I let them drop. It's an old car, and I'll expect to pay for things as time passes. However, for a long list of important stuff that would be expensive for me, they agreed to make things right. These agreements were conditional for the sale.

Eight days ago, I was told by the dealer that everything had been done, after several delays. I got there, filled in the V5 to sell them my car in part ex, etc, and then started down the checklist of items that we had agreed they would fix. It went something like this...

"Air-con done?"

"Yes."

"Fuel-tank breather?"

"Yes." 

etc. And then I got to a question where the salesperson couldn't answer, so the engineering manager was dragged in.

 

I started at the top of the list again.

"Air-con?"

"No - can't do it."

"So why is it ticked?"

"Because we looked at it."

"But it can be done?"

"Yes."

"But you can't do it?"

"No."

"So why is it ticked?"

"Because we can't do it."

"I don't remember that being part of the deal. You promised to fix it. Can you get it done?"

"Yes."

"So why didn't you?"

Etc.

 

I was livid. We ultimately agreed that they would fix the several outstanding items, and I drove away. Very disappointed at not having the car, and very annoyed at having wasted almost an entire morning when I should have been at work. Still, tomorrow is another day.

 

So today, I was told (just this morning) that the last of the issues was fixed to a point where I agreed it was adequate. This afternoon, I got a lift there (in a friend's Elise, I'm proud to say), since I've sold my own car privately in the meanwhile. Paid for the car, filled in the V5. Sat in it, and everything was completely dead. Dead as the proverbial dodo. It had been driven just yesterday. Why is it flat? The battery is new since it failed to start the first time I saw it. Is the alternator faulty? And there were some other things probably not fixed either. So once again, I walked away. Walked this time, not drove. No car to drive in.

 

So I'm not really a happy bunny. Have you ever heard of someone who has been to get a car handed over twice, and neither time has the car worked as promised? From a franchised dealer? 

 

So now, they have refunded my payment (though not the deposit, yet!), and will fix the problems in the new year. It's such a shame. The car looked drop-dead gorgeous this morning, having had some of the paintwork touched up and a proper polish. Just stunning!

 

The saga continues. I still hope (desperately) to have the car soon. But I don't have it yet.

 

It's all frustrating. As I see it, the price is expensive for what it is, but it will be OK, if the car is in good condition. If I buy it with a grand or two of work still to do, I'll have been ripped off right royally. And that's from a dealer, who ought to be able to make it work. I know it's an old car, but surely one wouldn't pay £300 for a car with an MOT that won't start? That can't be just me, can it?

 

I so hope they pull their fingers out. The car is beautiful, and I desperately want to pay them for it. Instead of cutting corners, why can't they just do a decent job of making it OK, and then get their money? Or even a half-decent job? I'm sure it's 'Car-Selling 101' where you learn to check that the car will start for the customer.

 

Here's hoping that they come back well rested after the Christmas break and ready to get it fixed for me...

[MartinL]

OOOOHHHH NOOOO !! bad news, shit happens to many of us and I really dont think that any car dealer would want this to happen at point of sale, BUT if the car in not 100% when you next go for it then walk away and look for another, just my 2p worth.....

[ramjet]

This is a tough one.

 

There's the school of "Three strikes and you're out", then there's the school of thought that "some of the stuff might be just simple".

The car not starting could simply be a connection, a fuse, or the regulator. At worst, it could be a short to earth lord only knows where. This is where it moves into the realm of white man magic. Hey, they're a dealer. They'll have an auto electrician available to them.

 

If they have sorted the big ticket items that you listed, wait to see what happens.

Agreed though, it is a tough call.

 

ps. I presume 300GBP in your post is a typo?

[DanR]

Your saga of issues doesn't inspire confidence in the car or dealer. You want it, they want it gone so 11k as is and trailer it to somebody who is competent with this model. If they won't accept that, walk.

[Sparky]

Totally agree with Dan.  Unless these guys are really experienced with Esprits (it appears they're not), there are some things I wouldn't want them to fix!  Haggle the price down and get the car to someone who knows what they're doing.

[Bazza 907]

I doubt that they'd go along with this but I'd be tempted to get a ball park price from Gerald to fix it and tell them to take it to him with the price adjusted accordingly.

 

Use the "we can't fix it" as a perfect excuse to get it to GST where you will know that it will be done properly.

[espritmania]

Hi,are  you desperate for one now or can you wait till Spring.I'm in the process of doing one up and no doubt when I have finished doing it up I will probably sell it to fund another Project.

[TimSportsTourer]

Thanks for all the views and advice. I think they have one more chance, and I'm hoping they rise to the challenge. More hope than certainty, sadly. For the money they want, it has to be a runner, and then some. I too hope that the flat battery will turn out to be something simple. Or at least identifiable and fixable. We've yet to know.

 

Ramjet, the £300 wasn't a typo, but I may not have been clear. The analogy I was making was that if I were spending £300 on a banger, if I bought one without an MOT, I'd think it was fair for it not to start. If it had an MOT, I would expect it to start, or else I'd walk away. Equivalently, if I'm buying an Esprit as a restoration project, I wouldn't expect it to start, or even have the engine in it. However, with an MOT, I'm expecting it to start.

 

Thanks for the offer, Espritmania. Let's see what happens here first. If this falls through, it will be back to square one again, and I will start considering Esprits and Elises as well, all over again.

 

On the "we can't fix it" front, this was about the Air Con, that was presumably filled with CFCs that they aren't licensed to manage. They did get a specialist in to fix it, and I think that's going OK now. This was in between the two times they've tried to hand the car over.

 

The most disappointing thing of all is that when I had an Elise, I had a great relationship with these guys. They always treated me honestly, and helped to make the Lotus ownership experience a joyous one. They remain the only franchised dealer that I've ever trusted, and they were truly excellent. I assumed the same would be the case just a few years later. Evidence is mounting in my mind against this assumption, and I'm really sorry about that. They may yet redeem themselves, but it's going to be tough.

[pete]

Surprising since they do full restoration work on all loti and say there can't be many restorers with as much knowledge of lotus as them.

[DanR]

I reckon with Esprits getting old now, there isn't much experience in dealerships about maintaining and servicing them. There'd be Lotus mechanics who have never worked on one so they end up learning, either well or poorly, at the expense of the owner.

[dodge1979]

There wont be much experience on the esprit amongst a lot of the technicians these days, but with reference specifically to the aircon issue they will no doubt be unable to source a new condensor as its tye combined condensor and chargecooler unit and is unavailable new...i was lucky to find a.guy who had two, so I had one to split the aircon unit off and use...the rest of the system you can fix if there are issues easily. But the work and cost involved in removal of this unit along with the main engine rad, along with replacement of all the rusted broken fixings, the time and labour charge and then sourcing or having (expensively) reconditioned the aircon/chargecooler rad assembly..oh and the risk of damage to the two oil coolers when removing or just moving them out of the way, puts the cost of fixing the aircon way way over any profit in the car and theyll be onto a big loss. Basically, if they won't fix it, as suggested before, walk or offer them significantly less to take as is. Theyve made a deal to do it with you as part of the sale, if you can do the work yourself then negotiate a drop, but if you cant and need to send it away negotiate a significant drop...but don't accept less or you will be paying through the nose for the car and then youll experience a bending over to get it fixed....

[TimSportsTourer]

Big news: at last it's mine. More wrangling, more time, more long e-mails and more chats to Gerald at GST. At last all things were fixed up, so I got the train to Stansted and got it. Feeling very (very) good about it. It's a thing of real beauty, both engineering and aesthetic. BIG grin time! Thank you all for your recent help - a week of hol over New year and a cold running through my family stopped me replying earlier. It has all helped me get to a great position. A little time to experiment, but I've yet to have a proper blast in it. However, it certainly isn't lacking a sense of urgency in its responses. The future looks fun, at the moment. A few things very minor have revealed themselves: * one of the lamps in the boot doesn't work. Don't see this as either important or difficult to fix. * the IP dimmer has no effect. At least the IP illumination all works! A bit of browsing around here suggests some judicious poking about with a soldering iron should help. It will wait till I get the chance. * the cigarette lighter doesn't work. Need to fix this, as I want to use this as a convenient place to plug in the battery conditioner. Probably a fuse, I guess. We'll see. * something you may be able to help with- the wind deflector. As a confirmed lover of convertibles, roof-off driving will probably be quite frequent. I have learned to put the glass on and off OK, but I can't for the life of me get the wind deflector in place. The tongues see just a smidgen too far apart. Is it a two-person job? Should I have to bow it significantly to get it in? Should it be a very stiff fit? I can get either one of the tongues in OK, but not both together. It seems that they both have to rotate about different axes. What can I be doing wrong? I know it's not a vital piece of GRP, but since I have it, it would be nice to be able to use it. Still, it's a big hooray for being a Lotus owner again!

[ramjet]

Great stuff Tim!

 

Weird about the wind deflector. It should slip in as easily as any of the roofs. Are the tongues at equal distances from the ends of the deflector? What about if you measure them compared to the roof that you have?

 

In any case, it should be simple to fit.

[Bazza 907]

Congratulations. Well done on making sure the car was ok before collecting it. At times it must have been a difficult decision to continue with but now I'm sure well worth the wait.

 

Wind deflector on my S3 fits perfectly and easily.

[hopo]

PICTURES!!!!

[Kimbers]

Excellent stuff. Not said anything here before, but am an Ex-S4 owner so can pitch in a little now you are an owner. Firstly the battery being dead previously. Get a slow trickle chrger or a solar charger as the batteries do drain as an older car. If I didn't drive mine for 3 weeks it would be flat as a pancake.

 

The wind deflector IS a tight fit. You'll get it in the end. Once you have done it a few times it'll all work fine.

 

Get used to calling the parts dept at the factory. Sometimes they have parts that even dealers don't know about. OR, go to enthusiast meets as many times people sell parts and give advice!

 

Lastly...put some pics up and lets see the car!!

[TimSportsTourer]

Thanks for your help, all. Sorry I've been slow this week - flu has been ravaging my family, so everything has ground to a crawl.

 

Here's some photos I took the second time I went to collect it. It was dark when I ultimately got it, and it hasn't been as clean since. Hope you like it.

 

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/gallery/album/267-esprit-s4-just-before-i-drove-it-away/

 

 

Edited January 12, 2013 by TimSportsTourer

[hopo]

That is a truly wonderfull colour...