Alunox 321 SS Manifold for Esprit Turbo Group Buy

[cammmy]

Put me down for now Mark but if it doesn't look like we're getting the numbers to order soon-ish, i'll probably have to order on my own.

 

Cheers

Cam

[MarkKassim]

^{OK Cam,}

^{1) Spud}

^{2) CarlC}

^{3) Ed}

^{4) Bosse}

^{5) Cam}

 

^{Mark K}

[xmission]

I'll take one also.

 

Good timing. I had emailed the manufacturer, and they told me about this group buy.

 

Hopefully there is a way to keep informed without finding this page every few days?

[CarlC]

You can use the 'Follow this Topic' button towards the top right of this page. That way you get an email every time there is a new post with the details of the post submitted.

 

I'd rather try and stick with the group buy but its not a huge saving, so If anyone one on the list cant wait any longer and have to purchase, please shout up as I will order at the same time as I don't think I can get my car on the road without this now.

[MarkKassim]

I'll take one also.

 

Good timing. I had emailed the manufacturer, and they told me about this group buy.

 

Hopefully there is a way to keep informed without finding this page every few days?

 

Hi Dan, no problem

 

^{1) Spud}

^{2) CarlC}

^{3) Ed}

^{4) Bosse}

^{5) Cam}

^{6) Dan}

 

^{Mark K}

[glynherron]

Hi Mark

Can you put me down for 1 too.

Like Carl and Dan though I cant wait another 4 months for numbers to reach 10. Is it worth Allunox quoting a price for 7 units?

[MarkKassim]

Hi Glyn, no problem

 

^{1) Spud}

^{2) CarlC}

^{3) Ed}

^{4) Bosse}

^{5) Cam}

^{6) Dan}

^{7) Glyn}

Were getting there

 

^{Mark K}

[cammmy]

Hi Mark

 

Sorry but at this stage I'm going to have to pull out. I've found a fabricator who has done Esprit exhausts before who can fabricate and fit a tubular manifold for less that the Alunox kit and with a longer warranty. It's mild steel but i'm more interested in longevity than weight savings at this point (and fitting is a major bonus).

 

Sorry to be a pain, if anything changes i'll post back up.

 

Cam

[CHANGES]

Hi Cam,

Sorry to hijack marks thread, BUT...I think you are under a misapprehension.

The Alunox system was design for longevity as well as performance, manufactured from 321 S/S.

A mild steel unit is as much use as a chocolate fire guard... Any money you spend on that will be

an out and out waste... Within a short time it will fracture and keep doing so when re-welded..

You need to consider the bigger picture here, It cost circa £500 to fit a new unit if you don't do it

yourself.. That is saying it can be done in situ. which some can not. So take that out of the price

you have been quoted and you will realise what a cheap manifold you are buying..

There are also a lot of design implication that need to be addressed . I worked very closely with

Alunox to insure their system met all the necessary design criteria and ticked all the other box's..

This system has been rigorously tested so should not be dismissed so lightly on price..

If you have someone just make a system, how will you know the flow volume and velocity data.

An exhaust manifold is not just a piece of pipe welded together it is an intrinsic part of the engines

tuning requirement... I did write a section explaining all this which may be worth you reading 

  If its the time scale you are concerned with, I am sure Leon will go with the 7 of you for now and hope

3 more come on board before production is complete,, Leon has been a god send with these manifolds

without them we would have no suitable alternative..

Sorry to be so blunt, but i don't want you to become a victim of the quick cheap fix...!!

 

Dave 

[MarkKassim]

Hi Cam,

Its not a problem I can take you off the list for now and if things change we can always put you back on. Like Dave says be careful with warranty as it normally doesn’t include the labour charge to remove and refit.

 

1) Spud

2) CarlC

3) Ed

4) Bosse

5) Dan

6) Glyn

 

Mark K

 

 

[cammmy]

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your input. I think you may have misinterpreted my motives.

 

You are the first person I've heard say that mild steel is a bad option for a turbo manifold. Everything else I have read and everyone I've spoken to (including my mechanical engineer brother) say that under high temperature conditions, mild steel is better able to support the weight of the turbo without cracking than stainless. This option also allows me to have the manifold ceramic coated both internally and externally.

 

£500 to fit the new manifold takes the cost to £1,500 + VAT. I simply don't have the money for that as I also need to sort out brake rotors. I bought the car less than a month ago it cost almost everything I've got. I wasn't planning to buy a car for another year, but this one came up and it's such a good example that I jumped on it.

 

I know that the Alunox manifold is very well designed and has had a lot of development put into it. I know that it will be better than the manifold I'm getting (and lighter) and would very much have loved to buy one. My issue is that I can't afford to buy this and have it fitted. I would normally do it myself, but I've moved from New Zealand (which is where my tools are) so have a limited tool set here. The only space I have to work in is an uneven gravel driveway with only two jack stands. If a stud or nut snapped, I would be unable to take care of it and would likely have to pay to have it transported to a mechanic to extract it.

 

I'm not having some random mechanic make this. It is with a specialist exhaust fabricator who provide a lifetime warranty including labour. If anything goes wrong with it, I just take the car back and they will fix it.

 

I'm not just dismissing it "so lightly on price"; I've thought long and hard and I have to take everything into consideration. It's the most sensible option for me in my current situation. Is it the best? No. Is it what I really want? No.

 

That's life I guess.

Edited June 30, 2014 by cammmy

[Chillidoggy]

Did you buy the silver GT3, Cammy?

[cammmy]

If you're thinking of the one in Surrey then yeah. That's the one I bought.

[CHANGES]

You are the first person I've heard say that mild steel is a bad option for a turbo manifold. Everything else I have read and everyone I've spoken to (including my mechanical engineer brother) say that under high temperature conditions, mild steel is better able to support the weight of the turbo without cracking than stainless. This option also allows me to have the manifold ceramic coated both internally and externally.

 

Well you are not speaking to the right people then...Do you really thing we would have gone to the massive cost of 321 ss if mild steel would do the job.. Others have tried to fob people off with 304 ss but that always falls short on requirement also...A good quality ceramic coating is circa £400 so i can not see the logic in this statement.. Your turbine will love the coating on the internal when it flakes off ..

 

£500 to fit the new manifold takes the cost to £1,500 + VAT. I simply don't have the money for that as I also need to sort out brake rotors. I bought the car less than a month ago it cost almost everything I've got. I wasn't planning to buy a car for another year, but this one came up and it's such a good example that I jumped on it.

 

You may have done better researching the car before hand to find out the pit falls along with the cost of putting into order first. If it needs a lot spending on it then its not such a good example...  Saying that most people expect to spend a few £k to get into order after purchase, they are circa 20 years old after all..

 

I know that the Alunox manifold is very well designed and has had a lot of development put into it. I know that it will be better than the manifold I'm getting (and lighter) and would very much have loved to buy one. My issue is that I can't afford to buy this and have it fitted. I would normally do it myself, but I've moved from New Zealand (which is where my tools are) so have a limited tool set here. The only space I have to work in is an uneven gravel driveway with only two jack stands. If a stud or nut snapped, I would be unable to take care of it and would likely have to pay to have it transported to a mechanic to extract it.

 

I feel these are points you may have considered first..

 

I'm not having some random mechanic make this. It is with a specialist exhaust fabricator who provide a lifetime warranty including labour. If anything goes wrong with it, I just take the car back and they will fix it.

 

That's good, you should get to know him really well.  Will he also give you a loan car while yours is in the shop being fixed..As a specialist he should know better.. will he be responsible for a bad design damaging your engine or turbo.. ie have the back pressures been calculated as to not hinder the syphon effect and so cause detonation and knock issues. Plus are the primaries and collectors calculated for you VE and provide the pulses in a balanced way that won't damage your turbo !!!

 

I'm not just dismissing it "so lightly on price"; I've thought long and hard and I have to take everything into consideration. It's the most sensible option for me in my current situation. Is it the best? No. Is it what I really want? No.

 

what you mean is , Its not the most sensible option , but the only one i can afford now.. 

The down side is it could end up costing you a lot more.........

 

That's life I guess.

 

It does not have to be that way... consider other options first.. There is nothing we hate to see more on this forum than owners being taken for a ride... We are hear to help and have knowledge with these Esprits to advise the best alternative for various problems that you may encounter... That's not to say it's what you want to hear but will have been born from experience.

 

Again i apologise for my bluntness but i don't know how else to say it..

 

Hope it works out well for you..

 

Dave

    

    

[sailorbob]

Turbocharged manifolds usually run hotter than normally aspirated manifolds due to the back pressure created by the turbo and the temperatures can exceed the working temperature of mild steel and regular austenitic stainless steel grades such as 304. Mild steel and 304 stainless steel manifolds have been tried by Esprit owners in the past and the failures have been numerous. Every one understands where you are coming from when it comes to having a budget but no one want to see you waste money on something that's likely to fail.

[cammmy]

Dave, maybe I'm misreading you but you seem to be taking this very personally. I'm not trying to put down the Alunox manifold in any way. I'm just saying that another option was more suitable for my situation, which there's more to than just what I've posted here.

 

My comment around mild steel is partly based on reading "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" by A. Graham Bell.

 

It is a good example, it just requires brake rotors and a manifold. Both of which I was aware of and both of which were factored in when negotiating the price. I spent a good while reading about these cars before purchasing.

 

I did consider those points first and was fully prepared to do it myself, but the option to have one fitted came up which was more sensible for my situation.

 

Yes, it's the sensible option because it's what's within my budget. I'm 24 years old. I probably shouldn't have bought the car but by the time I was ready in a year or so, there's no guarantee there would be one around that I would want to buy. So I jumped on it and now need to work with what I've got.

 

Yes, I'm placing an amount of trust in them that they have the experience to make it right. There was also a Lamborghini Diablo in for a full crossover system, so this is far from the most exotic thing that they've ever worked on and it's not even the first turbo Esprit.

 

I specifically asked the coater about internal coatings and the risk of it flaking off and damaging the turbine. They said they've never had it happen in 10 years and that it would atomise before it reached the turbine.

 

As I said. I wanted the Alunox manifold. It is my preferred solution, but unfortunately I have other things to consider too.

[pete]

is the £500 an estimate or a price .Does it include all gaskets,studs and nuts.What happens if some studs shear off

[CHANGES]

maybe I'm misreading you but you seem to be taking this very personally. I'm not trying to put down the Alunox manifold in any way. I'm just saying that another option was more suitable for my situation,

 

I am not taking it personal at all and i never implied you undermined Alunnox . All I was trying to say was

there is a wealth of experience here that knows what eventually happens when you travel the path you

wish to take.  We are sharing that  knowledge with you freely and without prejudice.  

What you do with that is your concern.

[Chillidoggy]

From what I've read, the Alunox manifold looks to be a really good piece of kit, which has been thoroughly researched, designed, and tested. The cost reflects that investment.

 

Although I have manufactured my own mild steel exhaust headers and systems in the past, I wouldn't be attempting it on a turbo engine, as it isn't simply a case of getting rid of exhaust gases efficiently (in simple terms), as it is on a normally-aspirated job.

 

In any case, being a lazy bastard, I cannot see the point in re-inventing the wheel when someone has already done the hard work for me. Were I to build my own system, I might get it right, but on the other hand, I might not, which could end up being a costly exercise that I can ill afford.

 

That's my personal view, and it is likely I will be on the list at some unspecified point in the future.

[Trevsked]

Cammy,

 

It might hurt a little now to stump up the extra but I predict more pain if you go the mild steel route. The Alunox is a high quality/properly designed and tested item and that is factored into the price.

 

Trevor.

[cammmy]

Thanks for the feedback guys but unfortunately the car went in on Sat.

 

I'll keep everyone posted on any future issues. If it fails, i'll be the first to jump on and warn anyone else in future.

 

I'm planning on going back to NZ at some point and will be taking the car with me. I wanted the longer warranty so that while I'm here, I won't ever have to face doing the manifold without my tools and equipment. I have a lot more tools and a 2 post hoist out in NZ, so if it cracked out there, I'd be able to swap it out for the Alunox unit it myself with relative ease. If it lasts until I'm ready to leave without any signs of issues, I might purchase the Alunox unit and take it home, swap it out with my equipment and sell this unit on to recoup some costs. If there are issues with it while I'm still here, it's covered by a warranty that includes labour. When I leave, I can take an Alunox unit with me and swap it out back home and hang this unit on the wall. Either way, I'll be in a much better position financially by that point

 

Also, just in case anyone is interested. Zircotec quoted me between £280 and £380 for their coating (external only). The difference is based on which material you want. This is a plasma sprayed coating that uses a ceramic powder and effectively welds it to the metal. It's not a paint based coating that is sprayed and cured.

 

Cheers

Cam

Edited July 2, 2014 by cammmy

[cammmy]

Cheers, will do

[dodge1979]

So, was £500 the estimated price then, as asked earlier by Pete and did it include all the new studs, nuts and gaskets required? Because you cant reuse the same old ones.. How many hours of labour does it include? You've already said in an earlier post that it would cost you £500 in labour to have the alunox unit fitted..so if you already have a labour charge to have a manifold removed from your car and a new one fitted, then how can the one your going for cost £500? That means there supplying it free of charge? Without actually costing It up exactly, I cant see that price including the lengthy and no doubt troublesome job or removing an old rusted on, seized bolts n all, manifold. And then add on the labour to custom make a manifold to the car, in situ Im guessing, fabricate, test fit, adjust as required. Oh then theres the materials charge....without sounding insulting (as Im trying not to) it sounds like a "wheeler Dealers" sort of costing..ie full of fairy dust and make believe.

[cammmy]

Hi Dodge

 

I haven't mentioned any pricing for my manifold (or even who is making it) out of respect. I'm not trying to say anybody to go down the route I'm taking and I'm certainly not try to influence anyone away from this group buy. I simply posted my intentions to explain to Mark that I wasn't just pulling out on a whim because I didn't fancy it anymore.

 

The £500 was an approximate fitting price suggested by Dave. The manifold I'm getting is costing more than that.

 

The old manifold is already off and gaskets etc sorted.

 

Ta

Cam

Edited July 2, 2014 by cammmy

[dodge1979]

Well good luck with it in that case. Whatever its costing that you view as a saving, will Im afraid turn into being a substantial extra cost in the not-so-long-run. Its just the experience of it that all the guys here have tried to impart upon you..and in some cases emplore you, not to do that route.