Lotus Evora 400

[Breeze]

I'm interested in the fact that so many people are getting wound up over the Porsche GT4. From my understanding, whilst it might be a wonderful car, there will be very, very few available in the UK for a considerable time. So if it's not really available, why and from where, will people be buying them in preference to an Evora?  Also, in my opinion they are not really comparable cars in any event. The GT4 is an out and out sports / track car, where as the Evora is a GT. The GT4 is much more akin to the Exige V6 and I guess that at such time that gets 400 bhp in the back, it'll be a pretty serious GT4 rival.

The refresh of the Evora seems very good to me, and if they have replaced 30% /40% of the total car, that really does make it a Series 2 Evora. ( What % of parts were changed when the Elise went from S1 to S2? ) It's a shame so many only seem happy to rubbish it and cr@p on about Porsches. I'll buy a Lotus because it isn't a Porsche!

[Advantage]

To be fair to the "prototype" comments, the cars on stand go through an extremely accelerated wear cycle while on display. The public are clumsy oafs and the cars get an absolute pounding throughout their time on show. 

My time of wearing a suit and speaking to (potential) customers was the M250 era and obviously that car was a concoction of all kinds of examples from the model-maker's art which would have disintegrated to dust if subjected to the attentions of two weeks worth of excitable middle-aged men, grubby kids and bored wives.

 

The 400 on display may well have non-production ready facsimile components fitted which won't cope with thousands of unsympathetic fingers prodding, pulling and durability testing. If any of those components get damaged the showcar still has to be on display for the remainder of the exhibition and you can bet you favourite Chris Harris Tweet that photos of a broken Lotus would hit social media before you can say GT4.

So I can fully understand why unaccompanied internal inspection of the car is being discouraged, however that doesn't excuse the lack of a prompt chaperoned guide around it.

 

Having said that, if I had spotted Tony and his group heading for the stand's entrance I'd have made myself scarce too.

[Lovedriving]

Also, in my opinion they are not really comparable cars in any event. The GT4 is an out and out sports / track car, where as the Evora is a GT. The GT4 is much more akin to the Exige V6 and I guess that at such time that gets 400 bhp in the back, it'll be a pretty serious GT4 rival.

+1 I have been saying this a number of times on the US forum.

[NedaSay]

I'm interested in the fact that so many people are getting wound up over the Porsche GT4. From my understanding, whilst it might be a wonderful car, there will be very, very few available in the UK for a considerable time. So if it's not really available, why and from where, will people be buying them in preference to an Evora?  Also, in my opinion they are not really comparable cars in any event. The GT4 is an out and out sports / track car, where as the Evora is a GT. The GT4 is much more akin to the Exige V6 and I guess that at such time that gets 400 bhp in the back, it'll be a pretty serious GT4 rival.

The refresh of the Evora seems very good to me, and if they have replaced 30% /40% of the total car, that really does make it a Series 2 Evora. ( What % of parts were changed when the Elise went from S1 to S2? ) It's a shame so many only seem happy to rubbish it and cr@p on about Porsches. I'll buy a Lotus because it isn't a Porsche!

Actually the allocation of Porsche Cayman GT4 is already sold out from what I gathered so if you are in the market for a superb sports car able to reach 186 mph, not made by Nissan, under 70k ... three words : Only in Hethel it will be rare, it will look good and it will be a blast to drive. Now I just need a few to be sold here so that I can get my hands on a N/A Evora ... They seem to be so rare that they barely lose value around here...

Edited March 13, 2015 by NedaSay

[Trevsked]

Only the initial batch of GT4's have sold, there will be another run shortly and given the superb fit finish and interior design that batch will sell quickly too. No use everyone being blinkered, the Porsche is a much better product at a comparable price. I love Lotuss for the way they are built and the way they drive but much the same as our haggis eating friends in the highlands, I was sorely disappointed in how Lotus displayed their revisited flagship. Even the Swiss dealer was saddened by the lack of pazazz, a silver a grey and a white car coupled with a grey cheap tiled floor. The hardcore enthusiast travelled to Geneva and all I've heard is how the GT4 is second rate and anyone who buys one has sold out to the Porsche image only as it couldn't be the car they want with its huge brakes, superb seats in carbon fibre, swathes of Alantara and more carbon, manual only option for the real driver. I don't recall anyone saying the 400 is fabulous and has re-lit the fire, I must have one. Very disappointed not so much in the car but in Lotus. The colour was wrong as are the seats and materials used. Lotus can do so much better as we all know and should have done.
When the car is actually in production and you can spec it up I would want better seats mounted lower in the cabin so I don't look through the top of the screen, barge boards similar to the Elise Cup to add interest to the side view and a hooded inlet cover like the GTE/Mansory behind the doors. A different design on the bonnet grills, Acantara not Suedetex with contrast stitching options and I could go on and on (better looking wheels). Like most here I want to love the 400 and more importantly I want to buy one but at £80k it will have to be a whole lot better the the Geneva car and I know Lotus can do it so why green light that show car as a statement.

Trevor.

[atlasapl]

No use being blinkered, the Porsche is a much better product at a comparable price. And you know that how? oh that’s right, you don’t because you haven't driven either yet. Not sure exactly who is being blinkered there. The GT4 may end up being better, but at this time, nobody is qualified to make that statement. As for saying the GT4 is second rate, I am yet to hear that from anybody. you would have to be biblically stupid to say that about the GT4. I don’t like Caymans (or 911s for that matter), but it doesn't detract from the fact they are great cars. 

 

As for the launch, yes there could have been a lot more pizazz. But lets not forget just how much money the likes of Porsche have for events like this, and how much money Lotus do not have. The costs of a show like Geneva can be astronomical. OK, the car was a prototype and not production quality, and yes, the attitude of some on the stand could have been better. But what choice did Lotus have? (choice of colour aside) They either show the prototype at such a high profile event or, they don’t and as a consequence don’t get any publicity at all. It may have been a case of smoke and mirrors at Geneva for Lotus, but I don’t see how they had a choice.

[Trevsked]

I think they had a huge choice when developing the interior, the mechanical side which we don't know how much difference has been made to the way it drives I would have thought takes more time and during this time the interior and exterior should have been developed. I can quite see how owners of existing model Evora's are having sighs of relief. When Lotus lauched the Exige V6 they pretty much nailed it and that was a major revamp.

 

Trevor.

[The Pits]

Sounds like the Evora 400 isn't for you Trevor. I can't comment on the Geneva presentation but resources are finite and increasingly hard to justify after the Bahar saga. I'm not excusing the reports from Kimbers and co, but in overall tone I think it's likely that they wanted to take a more low key, less glitzy tone to emphasise that JMG approach is very different to the Bahar approach. Seems they went a bit too far perhaps! 

 

I think it's just fine if someone wants to prefer the Evora 400 over the Cayman GT4. Anyone preferring Lotus to Porsche is in a very small minority anyway and without them there is no more Lotus.

 

I'm probably the only person here biblically stupid enough to be negative about the Cayman GT4, though I haven't ever described it as second rate. The GT4 doesn't interest me remotely as a car to buy, other than as an opportunity to flip it for a profit. I'm sure it will be great to drive but there is plenty I've read about that, if true, would be a deal breaker for me. I'm just not buying into the hype - it's all from people who haven't driven it yet and all based on assumptions about the Cayman and the Porsche motorsport department. I haven't read anything yet to suggest it's in anyway more exciting to drive than a 997 GT3. As such I really don't get what all the fuss is about. Unless you really dislike the rear engine layout (which no-one seems to) then what does a Cayman GT4 offer over the previous GT3? More comfortable probably, more benign on-limit handling, a cool app for the screen? The reaction from those who've driven it in the press so far is very positive overall, of course, but I get a sense that it falls slightly short of the massively high expectations. I'm not sure how any car could match them actually. Some people are already claiming that it's an all time great and high point in the history of Porsche road cars! In fact, I'm probably going to like it more than anyone because I have much more realistic expectations about it! It's a Cayman with a detuned 991S engine in it. That's all good but when the dust has settled I think the GTS might one day prove to be the sweet spot in the Cayman range, much like the V6S is in the F-type range. Everyone assumed the GT4 would be an automatic shoe-in for EvoCaroTheYear 2015. Maybe it will, but the gearing, the steering, and Porsche holding back with the engine might just cost it the title. 

 

Who knows, I look forward to trying one and will be the first to admit that I got it wrong if it turns out to be something truly special and 'a much better product at a comparable price'. Until then I'll just keep saving up for the Exige 400.

 

And Gordon, I agree with what you're saying but the tone is getting ever so slightly pistonheads and what's up with your typeface?

 

[Kimbers]

Jonny there's a fine line between "Understated" and "Business prevention" and they were way under it from my experience. Pre judging me because I had a pair of jeans, a sweaty T shirt (boy it was hot in there) and a hoodie round my waist, is the worst mistake anyone in the car industry can do. I once sold a top of the line CRV, brand new, to a man whose pig poo covered trousers were tied up with string and his willies had holes in them....turns out he was a millionaire!

 

Going back to the car. One thing many people forget is the cost of keeping the Evora and the Porker on the road. Toyota running gear is sooooo much cheaper than Porker and someone I know just had a first service on their Porker and it came to £2800. I suspect the Lotus would be at least half of that! You also have to take into account the number you see. If I drive down my street, which in a small village and has about 20 good sized houses, I can see 2 Boxters, 2 Caymens and a 911. That's one street! (albeit a well to do one...and no I don't know why I live here). AND I'm in Norfolk so would expect even a company car!

 

I'll stick to the Lotus in one form or another.

[brightoncorgi]

Does the steering on the GT4 differ than the Cayman S?  The steering feel is a low point on the Cayman S.

[diego]

Jonny there's a fine line between "Understated" and "Business prevention" and they were way under it from my experience. Pre judging me because I had a pair of jeans, a sweaty T shirt (boy it was hot in there) and a hoodie round my waist, is the worst mistake anyone in the car industry can do. 

 

delusions of grandeur / mis management call it what you want ... and very silly imho.

 

most plebs turn up in a cheap suit to blag their way into a stand (nothing wrong with that) with no history or  intention of buying anything .... but anyone worth their salt in sales can tell the difference immediately... 

 

 

lotus' hardcore UK base is small enough to know who is coming and when. i was invited onto the stand by Jamie at B&C (couldn't make it - but thanks to Jamie anyway) but if i had turned up randomly and had not been allowed into a stand  by some insignificant minion i would have caused a right f**king scene....

 

agree with kimbers on this, do you want people to 'try' and buy the car or not? no excuses. have a guy stand there and fix whatever falls off immediately. but let people onto the stand.... have it full, create inertia / interest. 

Edited March 13, 2015 by diego

[Bibs]

This has now been addressed

[Trevsked]

Which bits? Come on reveal all :-) We al, want to love Lotus but sometimes they make it a little harder.

 

Trevor.

[Bibs]

The stand staff. Sorry, they've not started again on the car! 

[The Pits]

Kimbers account sounded inexcusably poor, even if it's pretty common at motorshows in my experience (must be something I'm doing wrong!).

 

But I couldn't help but chuckle at the thought of Kimbers biting his tongue, trying to keep a lid on the irresistable urge to go for a completely justified 'do you know who I am?'. Kimbers I think you showed a lot more class than I would have, fair play to you. Handing over your business card, nicely done Sir.

 

[Andrew C]

I must agree with Al and Kimbers comments the Lotus stand very poor I too almost said don't you know who I am. The Evora 400 not worth the wait is that really the best you can do. I am now concerned for the future of Lotus. The McLaren stand great now looking forward to my factory visit just like the old Lotus we used to know.

[Kevin Wheeler]

Jonny there's a fine line between "Understated" and "Business prevention" and they were way under it from my experience. Pre judging me because I had a pair of jeans, a sweaty T shirt (boy it was hot in there) and a hoodie round my waist, is the worst mistake anyone in the car industry can do. I once sold a top of the line CRV, brand new, to a man whose pig poo covered trousers were tied up with string and his willies had holes in them....turns out he was a millionaire!

 

 

Interesting that he had more than one willy and they all had holes in them.

 

Sorry, Kimbers. Can't believe everyone else ignored it.

[Vanya]

Even if JMG doesn't consider the Caterham 7, Ariel Atom, BAC Mono, Radical et al to be proper cars but the Nissan GTR sure as hell is! Lotus developed that too!

Wait, WHAT?!?!?! The GTR?

[brightoncorgi]

In the auto business (or any retail), you must assume everyone who walks through the door is a buyer regardless of dress or appearance.  They will eventually tell you if they are not a buyer.

[The Pits]

Wait, WHAT?!?!?! The GTR?

 

I was convinced Lotus sorted the Ford GT. I have been fortunate to drive one and it's the most unlikely place to find a very Lotus-like signatures such as light, even control weights, good ride quality and beautifully judged steering. I just couldn't see how Ford could chance upon such a deft set-up but I suppose to be fair they have been doing a great job in terms of ride and handling with their european bread and butter cars, so why not with their full blown exotic?

 

I put my suspicions to a very high authority on the matter and he said Lotus had 'very little' involvement with the Ford GT. My next question concerned the Nissan GTR rumour. He confirmed that Lotus had done a lot of work on that. Tell you what thought, the Ford GT drives a lot more like a Lotus developed car... such an impressive car, I would have one over a 458 anyday. Anyone thinking it's an overblown, overweight yank tank is in for a real shock.

[Bibs]

The GTR spent 9 months in Hethel.

[Advantage]

Was it pregnant?

[Bibs]

Well the Nissan Leaf didn't make itself

[Trevsked]

"Sounds like the Evora 400 isn't for you Trevor"

On the contrary, I went to the show wanting to fall in love but instead walked away with a heavy heart. If the Evora isn't for me as you put it and I'm a staunch Lotus fan then who on earth is it for as nobody else has said "I've simply got to have one of those"

Trevor.

[Stuno1]

I am really surprised by all the negativity around it. I really hope when they get to dealers and people drive them perception improves. Also, I am looking forward to reviews. Personally I REALLY like it. Sadly I can only afford the older models as I don't take out finance but if I had the money it would be top of my shopping list.

Stuart