Paris Terrorist attack

[s4simon]

Sadly this sort of terrorism will never go away, and probably only increase in time. Watching the fear and terror they have brough to the centre of Paris They have sadly succeeded in their sick and twisted ways again. 

This 'global terrorism' is all my children remember. They watched the towers fall in NY, were living in London during the bombings and have constant reminders with these all too common religious fanatic attacks. What to do...

[comem47]

My question are they really religious zealots, or just sadists that twist the definition of religion to suit their needs so they can now satisfy their desire to now torture people vs pulling the wings off flies as a warped bully child?   (they turn to each other and wink and say "I'll call it religion if you do") I'm sure there was a lot of that with the Spanish Inquisition, etc.  I'm sure there are mastermind pervs at the top that get as much thrill convincing their gullible minions to do their evil deeds for them (more power thrill controlling others). Losers who otherwise could never get such power and recognition, but use "religion" to get in that position. Can we educate the future minion masses that they are just being used and "the cause" is a just a ruse?

Edited November 15, 2015 by comem47

[C8RKH]

11 hours ago, s4simon said:

Sadly this sort of terrorism will never go away, and probably only increase in time. Watching the fear and terror they have brough to the centre of Paris They have sadly succeeded in their sick and twisted ways again. 

This 'global terrorism' is all my children remember. They watched the towers fall in NY, were living in London during the bombings and have constant reminders with these all too common religious fanatic attacks. What to do...

For many of us in the UK we have been living with Terrorism on and off since the 1950's and 60's and people seem to have forgotten about the terrorist bombings of civilian shoppers in the 80's at places like Warrington, Manchester etc. The shootings, the knee-cappings, the disapearances, the car bombings etc. Indeed, these days the only people who live in fear after all these atrocities seem to be the aging the soldiers who fought, who are now being tracked down and brought to justice, whilst the terrorists hang out safe down the pub with their letters of "freedom from future punishment" from the British Government.

I remember being in Warrington on the morning the square in the main shopping areas was bombed, I was literally 10 minutes away, driving out after a morning shopping, when the bombs went off. A colleague and close friend of mine had just exited the train station in Madrid when the station was bombed. We lived with the threat for years and even now I still cannot forgive the Americans that collected and donated in buckets in bars in Cities like Chicago to pay for the "just cause" - the weapons, bullets and explosives that have killed friends and relatives - it took 9/11, the first real external terrorist act on US soil to wake them up and show them the effects first hand. Funny how after new terrorism laws where enacted in the US making it a federal crime to support terrorism that the funding for the Irish terrorists started to dry up and they came to the table.

Also, Germany, France and Spain, have suffered from brutal acts of terrorism, which has been an oft used method of a minority to try to assert their will over a majority since the 1950's, and probably even before then - so much for the democratic principles here then eh? Then we have Serbia, Croatia, Georgia, Sri Lanka and others. 

The global terrorist problem is not just about Islam or Muslims and is not just perpetrated by Islamists or Muslims - to think that is just plain wrong, not that I am suggesting anyone here really does think that. But to also blame the west, and the politics of the west, for all of this is also naive and wrong. Many of the worst atrocities are actually being performed by muslims on muslims in the region. Only the other day I was reading of people being tied/chained to columns at historic sites and then the whole site being blown to smithereens.  Why? Was this because of something a western government had directly done? Islamic State is frustrated by what it sees as the "liberalisation" of Islam and is hell bent on taking the region back to the middle ages. These views are nothing to do with western politics or actions - at best, the western politics and actions created an opening for IS to become established, but that is it.

Let us not make excuses for these bastards, for that is what they are. And let us not confuse terrorists, or potential terrorists with refugees, because that is just plain wrong also. A refugee is no more a terrorist waiting to be trained than any other gullible person. Indeed, if that was the case then we would have all been bombed out of existence in the 90's by terrorist groups from Ethiopia who's people were at the time suffering from incredible hardship with hundreds of thousands displaced. They did not turn to terrorism to "improve" their position.

Mass migration of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people is not the answer. The problems need to be addressed in territory and help, assistance, and protection needs to be provided in territory. Displacing, or allowing, the migration of millions of people, with different religious and cultural needs, to Western Europe will just create more problems in the long run - as I said earlier, just like shifting 500k white predominently Christian "refugees" would present problems in Saudi, Egypt, Qatar wherever. The infrastructure would not exist to support them (I mean, where would they all go on a Saturday night to get drunk for a start?) and inevitably tolerance would break down and cultural conflict would erupt.

Not everyone who has been crossing the Med to get to Europe is a refugee. Many of them are economic migrants who had the money to pay tens of thousands of dollars to move themselves and their families - relatively rich people compared to their peers back home - and a small proportion of them are no doubt posing as refugees to come here to attack us. I do not think that this is new news to anyone, it is just stating the reality of the situation.

Europe has completely miss-handled this whole sorry episode and opening the borders and shouting welcome was the wrong thing to do. Charity begins at home, so the effort should have been from the UN to set-up "safe havens" that were properly defended to provide areas of safety - just not defended by the Dutch army though eh as their track record is shall we say a little poor from their perofmance in Serbia/Croatia if I recall correclty. The provision of humanitarian aid would then have been easier with food, shelters, blankets, clothes and most importantly medical provisions and services being easier to administer. The UN yet again has proven to be just a useless talking shop that has actually done very little to respond and co-ordinate activities. And why is it always the West that is asked to respond first and incur the most significant part of the burden. What about the rest of the world and the fantastically wealthy oil rich states in the middle east who have the most to gain by keeping the issues contained and then resolved?

Obviously my opinions are my own and I suspect they may not be shared by others. But I respect that others may have a different perspective and view. But whatever we do let us not apologise for, or seek to justify or rationalise, the why behind what terrorists do.

[Barrykearley]

I really understand your views Andy.

But what I really don't get is the cowardice of all these fit young men running away from this and leaving their wives and children behind. One thing is to say they are fleeing - yet what happened to women and children first. This mass exodus just doesn't align with what I would consider to be correct.

Maybe this picture is worth reflecting on. We must always be forever thankful for the heros of our past whom refused to run away.

[C8RKH]

That picture and caption says it all for me. Too bloody right.

We should stop all the PC crap and the pandering and remember what made us Great. I agree re the predominance of males jumping from the sinking ship, so to say. If it was me, my first priority would be my kids, my second the wife, then I'd take my chances with what was left. I just don't get it.

[The Pits]

found this very interesting

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFFB

[Stephanie]

Today my country are more hurt than ever. Every one reacts differently, but we have no fear.
Paris is the city of Liberty, and it will stay.

Anyway, there is a global problem, and our politics have to be united, and stop this abomination.

[GTK]

I walked around a dockland corner in Greece last month and was literally engulfed in a throng of a few hundred refugees who had just made land. Straight up I got a fright, my "modern" sensibilities meant my instinctual reaction was fight or flight, this was a menacing situation and these people were desperate. What took over though was the atmosphere they were giving off. They were visibly on their last legs, tired, hungry and had less than the few t-shirts I had in my own bag, but the look of relief on their faces was palpable. They were just happy to be alive. Not one of us here know what to be in their situation feels like.

Regarding the problems on this planet, have a look at this list. Just look at the map. There are thousands of people dying, enslaved, persecuted and driven out every day, everywhere. 

A man coerced by fear and greed is not a man. Unfortunately there are many like that in every race of people, so lets not try and convince each other that some nations are great and others not. The only thing any one of us can do is be peaceful and impart that on those around us. Trying to throttle a man into compliance when he already feels aggrieved doesn't work, it only ensures instilled hatred for generations to come. One of the greatest lies in the modern age is the west thinking it can achieve peace with force. 

[Jacques]

Andy, I think that many will share your views, and to a large extent I do too. But I was asking WHO gave the muslims and other Groups as well, the technology and the knowledge to pursuit such terrible actions? And then they dare misuse the name of God and even have the blasphemous audacity to call it religion.

I am allways grateful for the actions of my forfathers, WHO stood up an defended themselves and their land, when ever someone invaded them. And so are you Guys. Because it meant freedom and possibilities to Prosper and live in Peace for us, the children.

I was also pointing out, that many of the existing conflicts in the World today, are led by muslims: in asia, africa, europe, the middle East and near East.

Remember the central democratic republic of Africa, where muslims killed thousands of Christians just some two years ago? And what did FN and Nato, the UN an dall the other high profile organisations do? Absolutely nothing.

Remember what happened when the africans finally responded back with killing muslims? Then the UN and others, quickly went out and said, that this must stop. In my view, the UN and others are not defending everyone, only the muslims. They keep their hand over them, to an extent. Only when it becomes too obvious or get's too close to Europe, they begin to talk about peacetalks etc. Let's not forget WHO the offending part is here.

Yes, the chistianity have to a large extent been misused by the catholic church, WHO led campaigns against anyone WHO did not obey to their view. That was many centuries ago. I honestly think that we have moved on since. But not so the muslims, WHO themselves chose to be radicalised, deny their own history, forcefully forget their own proud history, outcast all Progress in society, and return to a pre-stoneage way of behaviour and living. All those WHO can, pay rotten governments and Groups, to get out, and export their problems to the West, when they settle there. I have seen so many times muslim socalled refugees starting fights with other muslim socalled refugees. I ask: how old was the girl WHO was married to the muslims first and foremost prophet? Think about it, and then tell me, that the same does not happen today. Tell me, that the arabic World have equal human rights for both men and women. Tell me that the thousands of "Princes" in saudi arabia are happily sharing their wealth to all people in their country, and that they have terminated all poverty and unrigthousness. Please.

When I traveled in Jordan, Egypt and Israel, I was spit after, by both jews and muslims, just because I am a not like them. Actually it was harder for me to get back from Sinai into Israel, than the other way. Only because a christian monk spoke to some female jewish sercurity forces at the border control at Eilat, I was allowed to re-enter into Israel. The conflicts there are so old, that noone can hardly recognise a peacefull human being. The mistrust is inherited in the blood and genes. That is hard to solve, and I too, think that the solution should not come from the West, but from the middle east themselves. The brainwashing is enourmous. For example, I was told by some jewish extremists, that Denmark did not rescue any jews from being exterminated by the germans, during WWII. I know for a fact that we did. A lot too. The Danish jewish community have errected a stone for the Danish help. But the extremism does not recognise that. Only it's own invented socalled "truth", which is shaped to their own political goal, and then being called religion.

Remember Balkan area? Did it happen to be the muslims who murdered and burnt down hundreds of Christian churches and killed thousands of Christians? Yes it was. I personally know prople of both sides from that conflict. What happened, when the christian side finally started murdering muslims? Then the rest of the West called for a stop of the conflict. I don't in any way approve of killing, on either side. But that's what happened. That conflict is hiding just under the surface still.

In my view, much of the map of the World as it is today, or at least have been untill lately, was divided by certain parties of the West and russia, WHO drew lines, not thinking too much of the local countries or areas' own history, which have led to many a conflict since. Also, I think we have to remember some of the interests, which the West have had or still have, in various parts of the World, outside their own countries. This is for me, never ever an excuse to grab a russian weapon and start shooting. There is allways another choice. But in the same time, I cannot deny the fact, that there are certain groups of people in the World today, who have a tradition for murder, blood revenge, wraping children and women, selling slaves, while calling it a religion. It have absolutely nothing to do with religion. But poverty and uneducation speks volumes. Why is it then, that the is for example, burns books?

I will mention, just to be clear, that I have friends from many countries, many religions etc. I am just not blind to what is happening. I don't in any way blame the West for what all those muslim Groups of terror do. On the contrary. All these fanatic killers do it all by themselves and bring it all onto themselves by their actions, while trying to stir up a World revolution with endless threats of destruction. It's not the West to blame.

So, who sell weapons to the is? who have given some muslim dominated countries the knowledge to start producing weapons themselves? Who is the Worlds biggest producer of say napalm? Not an excuse, I know, but sometimes it is worth thinking of some of the aspects that is also included in a conflict.

I have respect for those former soldiers of the UK and elsewhere, who travel to the middle East to fight this is sickness of the World. And I don't have respect for all those Young men from the middle East, who do't stand up and fight for their country by eliminating for example alshabab, is, alkaida or alike, but stand passive and Watch it crumble and being destroyed into dust, whith all the women and children being murdered, wraped and enslaved.

I would wish to see the arabic part of the World stand up and stop their own violence and terminate the violent Groups. I think though, that this will have to come from the women, not the men.

Peace to all, and certainly to France.

Jacques.

 

[Barrykearley]

54 minutes ago, Jacques said:

 

I would wish to see the arabic part of the World stand up and stop their own violence and terminate the violent Groups. I think though, that this will have to come from the women, not the men.

 

It's gonna have to come from the women - all the men have run away!!

 

 

[Jacques]

Ha ha! Well, I Meant it seriously, as their men have proven time and time Again, that they cannot create Peace and a happy society.

Jacques.

[molemot]

Seems it's not properly attributed...but who cares who wrote it? Says it all, for me....

[Stephanie]

They attacked a concert, people at restaurant, the Stade de France. They attacked music, friendship, sport, culture... They attacked happiness. Best answer is to keep this happiness alive.
And, just note that happy people didn't want to make themselves explose.

[Jacques]

Something similar was expressed by the french ambassador her in Copenhagen a few hour ago.

It seems that in the bery Heart of the ec, there is a huge terrorist hatching possibility. And it sems that the belgians knew for a long time about the three Brothers WHO have been involved in the attacks in Paris. I Wonder why there have not been preemptive measures. Not to the public in general of course, as this would raise a storm of protests. But against those WHO seems to have been known wanting to hurt what Stephanie just described. Our way of life.

I absolutely agree, Stephanie.

Jacques.

[Bibs]

Wonderful spirit in the face of adversity. 

 

[Jacques]

Nice Picture Bibs.

Same just happened many Places all over Denmark in sympathy for France and our way of life in general. We are very sorry for your losses and please recieve out sympathy.

Jacques.

 

[Stephanie]

Thanks Jacques for your sympathy to my country. Very nice that we are not alone against that !
I think this attacks are more traumatic for people than what we lived in January, with Charlie Hebdo. Because they attacked our european way of life. they attacked without clearly goal. Just people, at random. 
French police is still researching a belgium guy. Problem is, there is thousands of guy like them in West Europe. And no one has a concrete solution to stop this. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2015 by Stephanie

[Jacques]

We had the same thing happening in February here in Copenhagen. For example a muslim guy fireing his attack trifle at will into the crowd at an art exhibition. But several other attacks also happened. The terrorists were all shot dead by the police, fortunately.

They will never, never break us.

Jacques.

[DanR]

Why isn't there a major program to reward informants of terrorist activities? The Chinese and Turks do it.

Paying informants, quietly to protect them from retribution by their "peers", may elicit a lot more intelligence than what the authorities are working with currently.

[Kimbers]

I think the effect of this is and already has been felt in Europe and across the world.

Stephanie, our support and condolences go out to you and your whole country. Whilst we have a rivalry that we both love to "feed" in Football, Rugby etc, France is one of our nearest and dearest Allies and the British people have fought and Died to  support our brothers and sisters in France in the past. Having watched the attacks on Paris Friday night, whilst they were happening I couldn't help but think of the time myself and Wendy spent there and even walked past many of the places hit. 

In the news they have been pointing out that one of the Terrorists did actually come across with refugees. (see article below) and that one was processed in Greece and in Serbia, though it doesn't say if it is the same person or 2 different ones. However we must also remember that one was a French National and another from Egypt! 

If you want to take refugees then I really think David Cameron has it right (damn, I hate to say that). Take genuine refugees from refugee camps in the area of Syria. If families think they have a better chance getting a new life by going to a camp than risking their lives then they will go there. Also, being local, many of the ISIS operatives will be known and dealt with and everyone can be properly screened before coming across for extra security!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34826438

Lastly, the policy that Europe seems to advocate even more is "more and more bombing". This plainly doesn't work (though good work on Jihadi John!). As Wendy said on Friday (and she's not a violent person and anti war) "the only way to deal with this is to cut the head off and work your way down". As she said, no one ever destroyed an evil and hateful organisation by cutting the tail off. Like many of the worlds evil organisations (Nazi's etc) you have to start at the top. Displace them, hang em and then start on their henchmen, then their henchmen then their henchmen till you get down to the people who are redeemable.

 

[Kimbers]

Please forgive me for posting a Mail Article but this does eloquently put across what I have been saying since the attacks. In France every Police Officer is armed 278,000 of them and they were on scene in minutes, saving many lives as the Terrorists knew the game was up and blew themselves up. In this country 6000 Police are armed.

WARNING: This article has graphic pictures of the attacks and victims.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3319924/Why-British-police-fear-higher-toll-attack-happens-UK.html

From earlier in the year. Just as pertinent and not as ranty as the Mail

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/chris-hobbs/police-cuts_b_6454652.html

[Stephanie]

In France, Police are armed since "Charlie Hebdo".
People were very angry, seeing a scene, a policeman shouting down by a terrorist, in the street. This policeman was on a bike, when he heard shouting, he came. He just meet a terroriste getting out of Charlie Hebdo, felt from his bike. The terrorist just shout him in the head. This policeman didn't have any weapon. We saw at TV this scene many times. The honor and the courage of this guy, shouting down, as we didn't shout animals like that.

[Bibs]

Now France, Russia, the US and UK with plenty of other support have Daesh firmly in their bomb sites, fingers crossed they are all wiped out sooner rather than later. Putin has had a face-to-face conversation with Obama and today Cameron and together, I'm fairly certain hell is about to be unleashed against their now common enemy.

They can't expect to get away with this, and they won't.

 

[comem47]

I just read Anonymous is after them too .

In the words of Wez:   

 

 

[tonytransam]

Unfortunately it occurs to me that people in the Middle East need to be ruled by tyrants like Saddam etc, he was just a gangster who wanted Palaces and gold toilets.