TLF Alps Tour 2017 - Planning thread.

[Bibs]

@JAWS has organised a few of these so will pop along soon with some ideas. Anyone else want to chip in and eventually I'll start a new thread with details in once they're confirmed.

[PaulCP]

Happy to contribute from this years experience if required 

The main Swiss passes are relatively close to each other and can be done in a day, anti-clockwise on the loop I understand being the recommended route. The Italian/Austrian border area is also worth considering.

 I guess such a trip depends upon mainly how many days folks want to be away and how much intensive driving they want to do v relaxation. Also it is better not to travel in too big a convoy. We found this year that groups of 5 or 6 worked well leaving 10 mins or so between each group setting off.

 

[The Pits]

1. Forget Stelvio!

 

[CaptainSlow]

I'm in! And I agree with @The Pits regarding Stelvio unless they've banned middle aged Italian men on bikes lately...

[The Pits]

Great idea though. I reckon it's best to go when the passes have only just opened. When the higher passes are still shut it's actually even better. Nothing coming the other way and usually people wanting to get somewhere go somewhere else. I did the Susten Pass when it was still shut at the very top and it was great, really quiet, very few other cars. Having to go back down and do it all again was no chore! That's still the best road I've driven for an Elise or four cyl Exige. Grimsel/Furka and St. Gotthard are better for the V6 cars. San Bernadino is a loopy ribbon of tarmac again probably better suited to the smaller more agile cars. Smooth, often quiet too but single track in places. A must drive though. The main St. Gotthard pass is an extraordinary piece of grand scale engineering but I believe there's an older part of the pass that's now redundant, in other words a car playground.

In an effort to encourage more pics, here's a bit of the San Bernadino:

A bit of Susten:

Furka:

The old bit of St Gotthard (never driven it, would like to though):

read all about it here!

 

 

 

[JAWS]

I'll try and offer some advise to those wanting to do a trip. I would love to organise one for the TLF massive but have already got plans.

- You'll need at least 5 days to do the trip (it seems the max for a boys trip sign off ), if you can do longer - great. I tend to limit it to 8 cars so it makes it easier to stick together etc and recommend June or September.

We normally meet up at a hotel (Holiday inn or Travelodge) near the Eurotunnel after work on the Wednesday night. Beer and a chat in anticipation of a 7am Train on the Thursday.

We then head as far towards the Alps as possible always stopping at the Grand Prix track at Gueux for an early lunch (packed lunch to save time). Depending on what passes/part of the Alps you want to see - Chamonix, Andermatt or Lake Konstanz are all doable in a day and still leaves time for an evening out.

On the Friday we tend to cover as many passes as possible, realistically 200 miles is the limit for a day's driving taking in the roads, scenery and stops. In addition to passes It's worth taking the road passed Lake Lugano and Lake Como if you're heading south and stop for a Pizza.

For planning routes I use www.viamichelin.co.uk as it shades picturesque roads and costs up toll charges and http://www.alpineroads.com/passes.php for pass info etc

The Saturday is then another day of passes, ideally heading back Northwards and still limiting it to 200 miles.

The Sunday is a longer run (~400 miles) through the Black forest heading towards the German Autobahns en route to Luxembourg (fill up - cheap fuel) and finish at Dinant. The Ibis is fantastic there and Cafe Leffe is a great steak restaurant. Dinant is great as it's only 2-3 hours to the Eurotunnel so we can get an early afternoon train and hopefully be home at a reasonable time Monday evening ready for work Tuesday.

Key points:

- Nominate 1 person to organise who is methodical, good at planning and willing to put a lot of hours in making arrangements. I'm a control and planning freak so love it

- if it's a larger group you'll need to book restaurants in advance as the last thing you want is to be knackered after a long drive and not have a place to eat or nobody making a decision over where to it.

- If you want to keep costs down, avoid Switzerland for meals and hotels as Italy and Germany are cheaper.

- 5 day's/nights hotels plus Eurotunnel, fuel and tolls shouldn't cost any more than £800 per car (2 sharing).

- Plan every detail even down to where to stop to view scenery etc

I've got some great recommendations for routes, hotels and restaurants throughout the Alps and happy to bore people more by listing them. 

 

 

I loved the Stelvio. We got lucky with traffic, Jonny didn't!

[CocoPops]

@JG220 where's that route you had?

[LO311]

Hey guys,

I had Alps tours for the last three years with my Exige V6 (Ex430) together with 4 Porsche mates (991 GT3, 991turbo s, ...). It has alway been a pleasure to chase these PDK beasts up- and downhill! 2017, it will be on my 3-Eleven, which is due for the the next couple of weeks (hopefully!!!).

My experiences are:

• Switzerland is expensive and they have ugly speed limits and more ugly speed limit fines. 
• Austria and Italy are much more attractive. 
• Stelvio is a masterpiece of road construction, a must see - but, to be honest, not a real challenge for driving (hairpin - straight - hairpin and so on). If you run it nevertheless, combine it with a trip to Livigno to fill up fuel for extremely low budget.
• There are much more challenging tracks, e.g. Gerlos, Gotthard, Pordoi, Passo Rombo (Timmelsjoch), Karezza (Kara-Pass), Passo Nigra, Pennes (Penserjoch), Grödnerjoch, Sellajoch, ... and a lot of more of less nameless but excellent roads. It's paradise!
• Gotthard: take into account to spend the night uphill; so you have the road in the evening and in the morning on your own, unless you are running out of fuel ...
• My suggestion is: for your way south, chose German highways down to Füssen, passing to Austria in Reutte and then start with Namlos, Hahntenjoch and then to Merano via Passo Rombo (opens normally on last May weekend). Avoid Merano itself and go east via Giovo (Jauffenpass) and then via Pennes (Penserjoch) to Sarentino (nice village, great food).
• Next day via Ritten eastwards to Dolomites: stay in one hotel for 2 nights close to Sella round. Down there, you can ride >300 miles a day (thereof > 200 miles passes).
• If you are interested, I could sent some GPX-tracks of my last year tour.

In 2017, I will be there for sure, but don't know yet when. Would be a thrill to meet some of you down there. Take care of my solid red 3-Eleven!

Peter

[JAWS]

I think LO311 recommendations for passes are great especially a trip to Livigno . My only reservations would be a number of those passes are Southeast which would need a longer trip and maybe a push for a first time Alps trip.

There is a good concentration of passes around Andermatt that are great -  Susten, Furka, Grimsel, Klausen, Gottard, Oberal, Nufenen, San Bernardino, Splugen that are all within 200 miles. If you can get over to the Stelvio and Umbrail passes in the time they are worth it especially if you link it with Livigno and most importantly the Hahtenjoch pass and on to some great Austrian roads.

[PaulCP]

For Austria below are the routes which we took on the recent Tyrol Speed Weekend meet as an indication. We made our base in Linserhof near Imst at this hotel which was reasonably priced for the group at €57 per night single, €84 double incl breakfast

http://www.linserhof.info/en/index.html

The first route takes in a few of the passes mentioned by @LO311

The second goes to more scenic locations rather than driving mountain passes but I have included it since, on the way into Imst, the loop to the left could be used which takes in the Hahtenjoch pass, the one by the Meiminger plateau and the Fern-pass. This would allow for a 2 night stay at this location.

From here you then have the choices to carry on further in to Italy or across to Switzerland. Switzerland is expensive but worth the effort in trying to find reasonably priced bases. A simple lunch on the passes costs around £20 - £25 per person. Also you will need to factor in the Swiss Vignette cost of around £35 for the trip which, although supposedly only for using the motorways, you will find it almost impossible to cross the border stations without being pulled aside to purchase one.

From our recent experience it is important also to plan locations to regroup. Even travelling in groups of 4 or 5 you will likely get split up by traffic on the passes so identified regrouping points solves to need to take chances overtaking to try to keep up.

 

[CaptainSlow]

Based on the experiences from our grand tour in England this summer with the swedish club I certainly agree with the statement regarding groups. Even though we only were seven cars it was impossible to stay together as soon as there were traffic lights, roundabouts etc. We had prepared a detailed roadbook which took some 70-80 hours to prepare for a two week tour. Probably was a bit overambitious since we looked up all junctions via Google Streetview in order to get the correct roadsigns.

[LO311]

14 hours ago, JAWS said:

I think LO311 recommendations for passes are great especially a trip to Livigno . My only reservations would be a number of those passes are Southeast which would need a longer trip and maybe a push for a first time Alps trip.

There is a good concentration of passes around Andermatt that are great -  Susten, Furka, Grimsel, Klausen, Gottard, Oberal, Nufenen, San Bernardino, Splugen that are all within 200 miles. If you can get over to the Stelvio and Umbrail passes in the time they are worth it especially if you link it with Livigno and most importantly the Hahtenjoch pass and on to some great Austrian roads.

No doubt, Andermatt is a good spot. But I already mentioned my (very personal) concerns about Swiss speed traps. And I cannot share JAWS's concerns that Southeast would need a longer trip. If you are going to make it from UK, you will have a long trip to reach the Alps anyway. But then,  the Dolomites are relatively close and there, you find a tremendous series of passes and great Alps scenery. Don't miss it. 

Peter

[LO311]

1 hour ago, CaptainSlow said:

Based on the experiences from our grand tour in England this summer with the swedish club I certainly agree with the statement regarding groups. Even though we only were seven cars it was impossible to stay together as soon as there were traffic lights, roundabouts etc. We had prepared a detailed roadbook which took some 70-80 hours to prepare for a two week tour. Probably was a bit overambitious since we looked up all junctions via Google Streetview in order to get the correct roadsigns.

You are right, that's a problem. With my (5 cars) group, we have Motorola push-to-talks with us, which helps to keep the group together. Besides that, I am using a Garmin GPS handheld, which allows to plan the route on my Macbook utilizing OpenStreetMap material, upload the result as track to the handheld and stupidly follow the track. The effect: no uncertainties at any junction and roundabout. 

By the way: during summer, it's no big issue to find hotels in the Alps, even for groups. There are big capacities, matching winter season crowds.

Peter

[CaptainSlow]

Lesson two - never ever trust the GPS. Three of us independently, with three different GPS models, ended up on the wrong side of Killington reservoir...

Instead of the service station we found ourself on the other side of the reservoir in a small harbour...

The road was a bit narrow, but who dares wins...

Finally we got around and into the service station instead with a much nicer view of the harbour and the Yorkshire dales from Costas...

So regardless how well prepared you are you should expect to get lost. Keep an eye on the petrol level and make sure to have phone numbers available to the other in the group. What tricked us in the first place was a re-route from the planned route due to roadwork. So the roadbook become useless for that part. One of the Elises was running on fumes for the last couple of miles.

[Alfa2Evora]

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 18:23, The Pits said:

A bit of Susten:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/jjnapalm/DSC_3188_zpsoxkqgj1j.jpg 

 

 

 

 

That seems to be an often-photographed bit of that particular road,  .

 

Like @JAWS, I loved the Stelvio. We tackled it in the early evening in mid-June and did it southwards so all the tight hairpins were uphill (gravity to assist the braking), stopped the night in a hotel at the top then proceeded down the 'gentler' side to Bormio and the Italian Lakes (via the Gavia) the next morning - as you can see, the Stelvio was absolutely mobbed when we were there......

[CaptainSlow]

Much nicer view @Alfa2Evora then last summer when we drove there. As some of you might have read in the write-up we made we got hit by a cycle on the way up. He drove off so this visit to Stelvio costed £500 in insurance + all the fuss of taking the car to a workshop some two hours from home. So not a great fan of that particular road.

[DJW]

A group of 9 of us did the Swiss Alps this year, staying at Andermatt where we took over a whole chalet.  Worked out cheaper than hotels , plus we had pool table, private parking including a double garage. 

We left on the Friday afternoon, across the Chunnel and then 50 miles into France to a hired old school house,. 9am start the following day has us in Andermatt late afternoon. 

The attachment was our Map for the week.  We did the top loop day one , and then a mixture of runs from then according to how we felt.  

We did however hit the first day some of the passes were open on the Sunday and the traffic was heavy.  Monday onwards was much clearer. 

We always carry Walkie talkies in tech cars, which allows us to keep in contact if split up.  Being a pretty easy going bunch of lads, we never organised food stops or evening meals in advance and had no problems finding places to eat.  

WARNING - speed cameras are in place in some of the villages and definitely some of the tunnels on the way there.  The passes themselves when you get to national speed limits had none and we never saw any police.   The group had several flashes from cameras as they are quite discreet often on sides of building, but touch wood no one got tickets through the post.  

Car wise the Exige V6S was epic out there.  If you have the coupe I strongly recommend you  get the soft too fitted for the trip. Without the roof off you will miss most of the scenery when driving,. I bought the rear hoop inserts and fitted myself, then borrowed a soft top from a friends VX220.  Worked a treat. 

Also on that subject, it's worth doing the same route twice.  Once when you are concentrating like mad and getting a move on, then another at a more sedate route to take the scenery in.  In the former scenario you miss so much as the driver.  

It's a long drive there and back, but worth it 

Edited October 1, 2016 by DJW

[DJW]

Non car related but just as important as you're  going to spend a fair amount of dosh, I registered for Revolut and found it great in conjunction with the mobile phone App.  No exchange fees !!  

Like the fact the App pings an update on spend within secs of making a payment.  Did have a shock when I used one the unmanned petrol pumps and it took £100+ off the card.  All corrected automatically within a couple of days, as it seems they often do this with cards <bizarre> 

Found it best to withdraw money via this card for restaurants , as they tried to get you to pay in pounds at their own exchange rate if paying by card.  Tried arguing that I could pay in their currency via card, but they wouldn't have it.  Also found most paces too euros at 1:1 rate vs Swiss francs  

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by DJW

[Choppa]

Any idea when?

 

[CaptainSlow]

Watched the Silvretta Classic 2016 rally on MotorsTV earlier tonight. Some really nice roads involved in this 3 day event.

[DDubya]

Any thoughts on possible dates? Have recently done an EU trip taking in DE, A, IT, CH. and FR including Stelvio and Furka. 2200 miles, Would love to do another trip.

Danny

[Blackngolds3turbo]

Any updates yet? Would be great to hear if any dates have been worked out yet?

[Bravo73]

I suspect that this might now be 'dead in the water', unfortunately. It will certainly be too late to book hotels.