Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[910Esprit]

That anodised rim, with some pattern Compomotive labels would look super authentic

[cweeden]

4 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

I doubt it judging by the quality. The centre casting is very very poor, they don’t bear up to scrutiny. The lips all have variances. I have assembled a wheel that is as good as these can be, given all the limitations. It will be interesting to see how well it runs. It looks pretty! 
heres the Anodised wheel lip, not bad really.

 

Hi Fabian,

Where did you get that anodised? (sorry if it has been stated already)

cheers

-Chris

[Lotusfab]

A professional polisher did it, based near Sandhurst.

[Lotusfab]

Gave the Turbo a clean. Hope to get the wheel back on tomorrow and test it out, it runs truer using my dial gauge, but there is inherent tolerance that you can’t get below. Its probably well within spec for balancing, I will find out soon!

[Lotusfab]

Well looks like I wont be driving this any time soon. Just had the tyre put on. Balance now perfect and wheel running true, only 10 g needed. Trouble is its leaking! The problem is the tyre shop. They used 42 psi to seat it. When it pops it breaks the sikaflex seal. Hours of work undone in a few minutes! Need to find another shop or way of seating the tyre.

[Lotusfab]

Think the weak link here is the garage method of tyre install. I think I will make the centre again and try installing the tyre myself with tyre levers.

[910Esprit]

Good luck with fitting & seating a tubeless car tyre at home!    (Especially on a rare soft aluminium rim).   Think you will need a Plan C. 

Maybe get the garage to fit it, but try using more lubrication and less pressure to seat the tyre?

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by 910Esprit

[Lotusfab]

Well the tyre is off again. After careful examination of the failure area I found a crack in the lip. This could have happened when they seated it or may have already been there and I didn’t notice. The rear surface of the lip is corroded, although I don’t believe this caused the air to leak, as the sikaflex was sealing it not the rubber band. I have more lips but will have to think through the best way ahead. I could revert to the original lip and get it professionally straightened. You could be right Steve I had the same issue before and the manager did the second attempt, it didn’t leak.

There is an alternative which is new technology. Its a product called slime. You put it in the tyre and it seals. Its a liquid with particles in that seal leaks. This could be the way ahead with these wheels.

I believe some bicycle manufacturers are now supplying new bikes with slime already in the tyres. 

[Barrykearley]

You sure can slime tyres - but I’d not recommend it on performance vehicles.

great for push bikes and tractors - but that’s probably where it’s best left.

[Lotusfab]

 

I just stumbled across this slime stuff. Its a liquid that takes can be left in tyre for two years. I don’t know anything else about it.

 

[Lotusfab]

Ok, got the spare wheel lip back today all polished. Remade the wheel and just waiting for the sealant to go off. Now I have the issue of getting the  tyre back on. I have tyre levers and rim protectors, but I expect it will be tricky! 

[Lotusfab]

This lip is in perfect condition, but then again so was the other one they managed to crack! These lips are so rare that was a real travesty, it is so very annoying. Not least because of the amount of work required to assemble it correctly. The problem is getting the tyre over the outer lip when its installed on the opposite side. I have had two failures now, not by my assembly, but by the tyre installers. I have three tyre levers and lip protectors, but without a manual tyre installer I think it would be very difficult to get the tyre over the lips. There has to be a technique for seating the tyre bead that doesn’t involve just blasting it with high pressure air! 
Peter the polisher sorted the anodising and polishing for me. Great work. He’s based in Sandhurst. PM me if you need his number.

[910Esprit]

For the money you chaps are prepared to spend on these wheels, you could invest in a professional tyre fitting machine for less than £1000 and then re-sell it whn you are done....

There will be no way of seating the tire without high pressure air (or igniting petrol as its done in the 3rd world)

[Andyww]

The whole point of split rims is you dont need any machine to fit the tyre. The wheel and tyre are assembled with just an allen key.

[Barrykearley]

They ain’t that expensive @910Esprit

https://liftech.uk.com/collections/tyre-changers/products/semi-automatic-tyre-changing-machine-240v-20-tire-changer

1 minute ago, Andyww said:

The whole point of split rims is you dont need any machine to fit the tyre. The wheel and tyre are assembled with just an allen key.

To seal one of these wheels properly - you most certainly need the wheel without the tyre on it 

[Lotusfab]

There is a 4 mm rubber seal on each side of the centre. Its possible when they were made they never used any sealant. The trouble is the outer lip corrodes over the years and parts get damaged. The rubber seal no longer seals due to the imperfections in the surfaces. Now we have to use a sealant to achieve and air tight seal. 
Having watched some three piece wheel assembly videos I think the problem is there is far two little soap water when my local garage tries to put the tyre on. 

That tyre machine looks good value!

[Andyww]

They would not have used sealant on split rims when new as it negates the reason for having split rims.

But its definitely the case that metal to rubber seals only work when the metal is in perfect condition. But maybe it might be possible to have the mating faces re-faced?

The tyre itself has to seal without any sealant though...

[drdoom]

Have you read what @Jacques has posted on the topic? As I recall he offers extensive insight regarding the 3 piece wheels fitted to his SE. It seems well thought out to me. There are 3 piece wheels without drop centres, what the BBS folks call " flat band ", and these are in no way compatible with tyre mounting mechanisms of any sort, AFAIK. Thus it is necessary that they be bench assembled, to be grappled with afterwards for seating.

Best of luck

[910Esprit]

8 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Having watched some three piece wheel assembly videos I think the problem is there is far two little soap water when my local garage tries to put the tyre on. 

From image wheels website, which I'm sure will apply equally to your split rims.

TYRE MOUNTING

DO NOT DISMANTLE WHEEL TO MOUNT TYRE
Each Image Wheel is suitable for tubeless tyres. Never put wheels down on styling side to avoid damage. For best results use mounting equipment with a rotating head and upper bead breaker that does not touch the wheel. Ensure the bead breaker does not damage the wheel. DO NOT USE MANUAL MOUNTING EQUIPMENT – IT WILL DAMAGE THE RIMS. Unlike a one piece wheel, which is painted all over, three piece wheels are not. We recommend your tyre fitter uses neat liquid soap. This will greatly help the tyre to slide over the rim.

TYRE FITTER PLEASE NOTE: Some wheels may have a rolled edge on the inner and outer rims. This is to increase the wheel strength especially when fitted on ultra low profile tyres. The rolled edge should not be monitored when balancing the wheel as it will give the impression the wheel is running out of true.

[Andyww]

Thats interesting, so they are recommending never dismantle the wheel. That does seem to counter the reason slpit rims exist but maybe they are just a style thing now, not any logical reason.

[Lotusfab]

2 hours ago, 910Esprit said:

From image wheels website, which I'm sure will apply equally to your split rims.

TYRE MOUNTING

DO NOT DISMANTLE WHEEL TO MOUNT TYRE
Each Image Wheel is suitable for tubeless tyres. Never put wheels down on styling side to avoid damage. For best results use mounting equipment with a rotating head and upper bead breaker that does not touch the wheel. Ensure the bead breaker does not damage the wheel. DO NOT USE MANUAL MOUNTING EQUIPMENT – IT WILL DAMAGE THE RIMS. Unlike a one piece wheel, which is painted all over, three piece wheels are not. We recommend your tyre fitter uses neat liquid soap. This will greatly help the tyre to slide over the rim.

TYRE FITTER PLEASE NOTE: Some wheels may have a rolled edge on the inner and outer rims. This is to increase the wheel strength especially when fitted on ultra low profile tyres. The rolled edge should not be monitored when balancing the wheel as it will give the impression the wheel is running out of true.

Thanks Steve I hadn’t seen that. I told the fitter t9 use plenty of soapy water. Neat seems like a great idea. I saw a video where they applied the soap to the body of the barrel, this seemed like a really good idea. No splitrim could withstand the explosive force that was applied to mine and be leak free! 

The I believe when the original wheels came out the fronts were always deflating, probably because there was no sealant in their construction. Modern sealants are a big step forward. Hopefully mine will go on fine this time I am thinking of getting Voodoo motorsport to put the tyre on for me, would be well worth the trip!

[red vtec]

@Lotusfab You can get bead sealer its like a black paint on rubber you put it on the lip before mounting the tyre.

Genuine 1x Bead Sealer 1 Litre Wheel & Tyre Accessories - Part Number TY310: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

You should also coat the tyre bead in tyre lube to mount it, My mate mounts tyres and gets even the tightest ones on.

Premium Ruglyde Tyre Fitting Paste Lube Tyre Soap Tyre Bead Paste Mount Refill 500g: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

[Lotusfab]

Thanks for that, I will have a look.

[Lotusfab]

In anticipation of fixing the wheel I am now focusing on my last job, tuning! 
I am running forged pistons with Higher compression. I have been advised to switch some of the carb parts to HC spec. I am wary the carb body is a 40 and not a 45, so, the progression holes are probably different. I have been advised to change the idle jet and idle jet holder to a 58 idle jet and a 9 holder. The 9 is weaker and the 58 much larger. The other recommended change was to switch the choke to 35mm. The main jet being left as is to mess around with on the rolling road. I will try switching these over and see what happens. I have a lean spot at about 2800 rpm which I am trying to cure. I have switched up to a 43 idle jet so far. Seems to be too rich at idle and too lean on the transition. 
In the mean time I have lowered the front of the bonnet by removing some shims.

Should have this sorted by the summer. My very very last job will be to upgrade the gearbox to Harry Marten spec. I should then be ready for Cortina! 

[910Esprit]

11 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

My very very last job will be to upgrade the gearbox to Harry Marten spec.

Are you going to install one of his 'reversed' crownwheel/pinion sets?

As a point of note when I change from 40's to 43's I need to turn in the mixture screws exactly one full turn to achieve the same idle CO2 - my datum is 2 full turns for 43's 3 full turns for 40's.   (measured with a gas analyser).

NB - I passed my MOT yesterday and he was very impressed with the emissions readings until we spotted the probe had fallen out half way through the test!