Future of Lotus

[jep]

Sometimes it is good to dip your toe first....I bought a NA Evora, thinking it would be a bit slow but I wanted to get in at the lower price bracket just to be sure I liked the Evora experience. 

Wow! A keeper. 2 years in, I hope to never sell it. I have now driven S, 400 and 410 but I still love the normally aspirated. The NA is a tad frustrating on the autobahns but still very enjoyable and gets to 140mph briskly enough. And I am only in Germany a few times a year, so it hardly matters.

Ideally, I would also have a 400, maybe even an IPS to compliment the NA. Given just one though, dollar for dollar I would take the NA.

Justin 

[KAS-118]

Latest on the all new petrol car for 2021 (although maybe not a lot we didn’t already know) https://www.caradvice.com.au/824572/lotus-all-new-petrol-sports-car-coming-in-2021/

[The Pits]

No-one I know at Lotus was talking about an Elan at all in 2019. Much as I like the idea, I have no idea where this rumour came from.

'Some time in 2021' could easily mean 2022 before any customers get their hands on the new Evora based car. Another 2 years without a new car to sell is very tough on dealers. The recent GT410 is a sensible thing to offer but is just an option pack. Before that the most recent model update was the GT410 Sport in 2018. Progress you could describe as glacial at best. JMG's model launches were a not well timed in some instances but talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire!

[tim_marra]

Whatever Lotus brings out next please DO NOT call it the Elan 

[KAS-118]

1 hour ago, The Pits said:

No-one I know at Lotus was talking about an Elan at all in 2019. Much as I like the idea, I have no idea where this rumour came from.

'Some time in 2021' could easily mean 2022 before any customers get their hands on the new Evora based car. Another 2 years without a new car to sell is very tough on dealers. The recent GT410 is a sensible thing to offer but is just an option pack. Before that the most recent model update was the GT410 Sport in 2018. Progress you could describe as glacial at best. JMG's model launches were a not well timed in some instances but talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire!

I think Autocar did https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/lotus-elan-frame-boxster-rival-revival-plan

[Sport220]

Wouldn't be surprised if sales dipped below 1000 in 2021 if the new car only launches in 2022

[blindside]

Pure speculation on my part but it’s a reasonable guess that Geely could be more interested in using Lotus and all the groundbreaking engineering & design expertise at Hethel as an R&D ‘mule’. Primarily to help prepare the whole Geely group for the evolving automotive revolution: https://www.just-auto.com/analysis/automotive-industry-rd-and-the-unseen-billions_id86321.aspx

If this is the case perhaps the next petrol driven Lotus model is purely a tactical play and as such will be well down their list of business priorities.

More grist to Jonny’s point about acquiring or hanging onto “petrol head pinnacle” Lotus models at a premium while the opportunity is still there.

[Barrykearley]

Maybe just maybe geely could actually get “normal” people to consider lotus as a possible car purchase.

[The Pits]

The big question then is whether or not a car that would to appeal to normal people could ever be a true Lotus?

[C8RKH]

10 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Maybe just maybe geely could actually get “normal” people to consider lotus as a possible car purchase.

Hope not. This forum would be so bloody boring if it was full of "normal" people. Only crazies buy Lotus and crazies make the best forum fodder!

Selfishly, I don't want Lotus to sell gazillions of cars. I really do think Lotus will dilute it's offering if it goes all mass market and the essence of what has made the company great (in the eyes of customers) will be lost. I also quite like owning a car from an "exclusive" brand - one that has history and heritage, is recognisable to most people, but one where the cars are not £500k each plus and the preserve of the super rich.

So, for purely selfish reasons I want to see Lotus flourish, but not just be turned into a "brand" for soulless samey cars or cars for the super rich.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Bibs]

3 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Selfishly, I don't want Lotus to sell gazillions of cars

 

3 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

So, for purely selfish reasons I want to see Lotus flourish

A tricky combination. 

[C8RKH]

2 minutes ago, Bibs said:

 

A tricky combination. 

Ferrari sell 10,000. McLaren sell 5,000.  So, around 5x and 3x what Lotus have been selling. That would be good for me, as opposed to the 250,000 Porsche sell.

[The Pits]

Agreed. I wish the ambition was to succeed as a ground breaking sports car maker not a me-too volume car maker at any cost. I have to admire McLaren's refusal to produce SUVs.

[jep]

I don't like 911s but Porsche still make wonderful sports cars that people like to buy and many are fanatical about owning. 

Some of these sports cars are proper racers (GT2, GT3 etc..). Without the everyday wagons, I doubt Porsche could build these. 

Just 'cos I don't get 911, this does not mean I don't think the cars are good or for that matter sincerely made by craftsman who want to build sports cars. If selling horrid 4x4s means they can do so, well done them.

I don't believe Lotus can survive as they are or as they have been. Many have tried to keep Lotus niche and have failed. Well, kept it niche but failed to make money to allow more proper investment. 

Geely appear to have a long term plan. Lotus have not had a proper long term strategy (IE. 10 years+) since the 70s. It may not work. Given the landscape they face, it is the only sensible option to take. It may mean a few more fallow years but at least they have a vision, backed by funds (unlike Dany). 

Justin 

 

 

[The Pits]

Maybe so but it woefully lacks imagination to copy Porsche, copying was never a Lotus thing. Mazda, among others found great success with a sports car by copying Lotus!

What worked 15 years ago comes with absolutely no guarantees of future success now. All car makers are having to radically re-evaluate everything they do now, including Porsche. This is a time for leaders, not followers. A time for bold, radical ideas. The sort of thing big car makers used to call Lotus for help with. Tesla sent a seismic shock through the whole industry and tide is rapidly turning in their favour now. Who did they call to get the ball rolling? The whole company started life on a production line at Hethel.

[C8RKH]

The bog standard Porsche 911's are @jep in my opinion good but boring. People are more fanatical about owning one because of the brand and the image.  They are a marketing company, a lifestyle company, first and foremost. They are a maker of cars second and a maker of sports car thirdly. All in my very humble opinion.  The GT3/4 and RS cars are motorsport embued masterpieces - even I, an anti-Porsche guy, absolutely accepts that and I applaud their very large and lengthy commitment to motorsport particularly at the clubman level. In fact, Lotus lost a lot of credibility in my eyes when JMG disbanded Motorsport Division and they are not nearly as involved as I would like in supporting and encouraging owners to race. They could learn a lot from Porsche here in my, once again, humble opinion.

However, Porsche cars are not by default good. There is a lot of hype about their build quality and reliability. The truth is they are masters of concealment when things go wrong - this is again reflected by their marketing skills.

A lot of people see Porsche as an aspirational car (indeed I used to laugh in the early 90's at people who thought they had made it when they got their first BMW 3 series - I used to remind them that even then they had paid £5k more than the bigger and more exclusive Ford Mondeo would have cost them lol...). They are fanatical about them as all they really care about is the brand and the residuals. So they talk these up whilst they hide the issues and the problems for fear of the impact it might have on the future value of their car.

I agree with @The Pits. Lotus has never been a follower of fashion. It's cars were often better engineered and better made than it's rivals at the time.  Yes they have had issues along the way, but so have Porsche, Ferrari, et al. It's just that everyone seems to love that old Lotus phrase....

If Lotus follows the herd then I will be out of the future cars. If they are going to just create a product to compete with Porsche on the like for like, then I might as well just buy the Porsche and follow the herd. The Lotus DNA and attraction will be lost to me.  We all buy into a brand for different reasons. I'm fascinated by Colin Chapman the man, the engineer and the race team owner. I'm fascinated by a British car company that stuck up two fingers to Ferrari and made better road cars, in my opinion, at the time.  I proud of a British company that has decades of engineering achievements, often world class and world beating, in it's history.

But, if Geely just goes all me too then I am out. I have an S90 with all the bells and whistles from Geely. Big screens, TFT dash, bongs and buzzers for everything. It's all a bloody distraction and often downright dangerous when your trying to swipe left/right and scroll around a large screen whilst driving. When I get into my Evora 410 Sport, the absence of any of that shite does not sadden me. It excites me at is then just me and my car. The two of us. Out on the road. 100% focused. 100% pure joy. 100% pure fun.

But, we are all different and some people just want to have the right brand/mascot on their key ring down at the pub/golf course....

[Spinney]

I’ve owned many Lotus cars in my time, the last 3 all bought brand new, and the one thing that really dismays me is, in all that time I have never once received any communication from Lotus, absolutely zilch.

I’ve bought other cars new, mostly Mercedes, and have always received regular communications from them. The usual ‘thank you for choosing etc......’ but also regular news in which I might be interested, such as new car announcements or updates to existing, plus the occasional dealer events etc, etc. 

A friend of mine has bought a few new Porsches and he is almost inundated with similar. 
Now, probably like everybody on here, I love Lotus for entirely different reasons and, in the past, have always accepted their shortcomings with regard to keeping me informed. Now, however, and particularly since the Geely takeover plus a new management structure, including marketing, there is absolutely no excuse for not keeping in touch with your existing customer base, never mind your future potential customers. Modern methods of communication have made it a complete no brainer to do so but not, it seems, for Lotus. 

I find this all very frustrating and would have hoped that by now the Geely influence would, at least, have changed this one aspect. I do understand there hasn’t been a huge amount for them to talk about but how about sending news on the recent ‘Softer’ Evora or prior to that, the Evija. Ok, I know that wouldn’t be on my shopping list but, nevertheless, it would help ramp up some excitement and let everybody know what they are working hard on. Marketing emails cost no more to send to 10,000 people, or more, than they do to 1, so why not?

The only way I get to find about new or enhanced models or, indeed, any other news about the company is from forums such as this, which is fine but not really what I expect from a company in the 21st century. Lotus have my email address and when I try to sign on to be kept in touch, just get a reply saying I’m already on their list. Well if that’s the case Lotus, why don’t you bloody well keep in touch with me, a long time customer and fanboy since the 1960’s???

I once had a Subaru Outback that we used for things like taking rubbish to the dump or for shopping or just for carrying over large items, rather than mess up the Mercs and it was quite brilliant for the role. Well I sold that car some 8 years ago when I no longer needed it but I still receive updates and news about new cars etc from them approximately every quarter.  

So come on Lotus, show me you care about your customers too. You never know, I just might be interested in buying one of the next generation of new cars!  

[jep]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

People are more fanatical about owning one because of the brand and the image.  They are a marketing company, a lifestyle company, first and foremost

I don't agree with this if you are saying that applies to all owners of a Porsche. I know a number of 911 owners, one of whom has owned 911 since 1970. He did not buy one in 1970 for brand or image. The others have all owned 911 since the 80's. And love them for the driving experience. 

Porsche may well have extended that to other buyers, who are attracted by the brand and image. So be it. It means they can make brilliant sports cars like the GT2's.

@The Pits I am not saying Geely will be copying Porsche at Lotus. They may be, they may not. But they have to make more than 2000 cars a year to survive. If they end up making popular cars that make money, this will I hope lead to Lotus being able to make Evora/Elise style cars also. Without some quantum, Lotus will end up making no cars.

My dream was that the Evora had been successful, a new Elise arrived and perhaps others sports cars. The Evora, a brilliant car, has not succeeded. So a new plan is needed. Same old, same old will lead to Lotus Cars oblivion. 

Justin

[Jonathan E]

Couldn't agree more Spinney, I'm in the same club, I've never received any marketing blurb from Lotus, yet I still get regular emails from Ford due to owning a used Fiesta for a couple of years which I had serviced at my local independent , the dealer got my email address due to a recall🤣. I also once showed an interest in an MX5 and always get an email telling me about their up coming models. Lotus marketing philosophy certainly seems to be "Less is More".

I think the biggest problem for Lotus selling future models will be cost. My new 250 is £50k, when I first started to look at a replacement I was shocked by the costings of current models. I hadn't looked since 2004 when I'd purchased my last brand new Elise(111r) which cost a shade under £34k if you link that to inflation then £50k isn't far off and I think most would agree that your getting substantially more for your money with a 250 than a 111r. I'd have thought a future Elise will be some way North of current figures, if you really want to go mad with the options its quite easy to get an Elise to over £60k now, what I've paid is a hell of a lot of money, and is the very top of my budget. I don't think I'll be able to afford future offerings, hence me saying it will probably be my last Elise. Like most Lotus enthusiasts I'm just an average Joe, don't smoke, drink(much) or gamble, I spend my hard earned spare cash on daft plastic sports cars that have fuelled my mid life crisis for over 20 years now😉 I suspect my new car will soon be a poor relation compared to what Lotus will produce in the future, I hope I'm wrong, at least I'll still be smiling from ear to ear. 

 

[Jcx]

Gosh tough crowd. 🤣 

The weekend is here guys. Enjoy the dry roads and trade some miles for smiles. 🤩

Peace to all lovers of all cars.  😇

[Bibs]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/11/business/volvo-geely-merger/index.html?

[KAS-118]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/11/business/volvo-geely-merger/index.html?

To be honest I always thought that Geely would seek to merge their various brands - so find it a bit odd that there's no mention of Lotus or the London Taxi Company in that article?

[C8RKH]

Smart move by the Chinese. They can now balance production/sales globally and will no consolidate production capability.

Not surprised re no mention of London Taxi and Lotus as their volumes will be too small for global consolidation at the moment. However, the eastern dragon is very much in the ascendancy and how long until the west becomes the commodity labour supplier? 20, 30 or 40 years?

[Sport220]

Just noticed this: 6:39 "An all new Elise will be breaking cover in 2020"

 

So... Is there a chance the new car will keep the Elise name and be unveiled by the end of the year rather than in 2021?

 

Edit: Sorry, didn't know this had been posted before

Edited February 12, 2020 by Sport220

[The Pits]

Somewhere between very slim and zero chance of either of those things happening.