warranty classification, please.

[MARTIN_S]

I read that this has been discussed before but to me the end result of those chats werent exactly clear.

In the service manual it states in the maintenance record, on page 7, under Additional servicing, 5. that The lotus Elise and Exige are designed as road going sports cars. It is recognised that owners may wish to use the car occasionally on closed circuit tracks etc etc. But not timed etc etc.

It does not state, your warranty will still be valid, justy that they recognise we may do these things .

 

In the New vehicle warranty booklet, page 5, 2. It states very clearly in capital letters, IT IS NOT DESIGNED OR INTENDED FOR USE OFF ROAD, INCLUDING ON CLOSED CIRCUIT TRACKS etc etc)

To me this is saying quite clearly, if I go on track in a Lotus (I thought designed for track) I will lose warranty cover.

I would be happy for anyone to clarify this.

Martin S

 

[CocoPops]

Uncompetitive events are fine Martin. As you point out, they know the cars are built (and even marketed) for use on track.

Even the Evora 400 marketing slogain was "From Road to Track, it's superior". Whether you'll get on for noise, is a different matter

I was assured by Lotus and dealer that as long as I maintain my car correctly then warranty remains.

[Bravo73]

28 minutes ago, MARTIN_S said:

In the service manual it states in the maintenance record, on page 7, under Additional servicing, 5. that The lotus Elise and Exige are designed as road going sports cars. It is recognised that owners may wish to use the car occasionally on closed circuit tracks etc etc. But not timed etc etc.

It does not state, your warranty will still be valid, justy that they recognise we may do these things .

 

Martin,

You forgot to quote the important line from the Service Notes:

"However, use of the car in a competitive manner, including timed runs or laps, is not endorsed by Lotus. This type of timed, competitive use will invalidate warranty and require appropriate levels of expert vehicle preparation and servicing." (My bold).

 

i.e. any non-timed track use (i.e. all UK trackdays) will not invalidate your warranty.

[MARTIN_S]

I haven t seen anything written anywhere in the Elise/Exige manuals that clearly states we can do non timed closed circuit events such as track days that wont invalidate warranties. It just seems to be by word of mouth from undefined dealers and un named Lotus people that its ok.

Can someone please prove me wrong.

Martin S

 

 

 

[Bravo73]

For the fourth time, Martin, the paragraph that you are looking for is in the service notes. The warranty is only invalidated if the laps are timed or competitive. 

Trackdays are ok. 

[rocket63]

The warranty is only invalidated if the laps are timed or competitive. Track days are fine. 

[MARTIN_S]

People can tell me the same thing 4 times and more but though I dont want to annoy anyone,  when it states in two other places clearly, that we are not covered, that gives very mixed information which is the general feeling I get looking at posts on here about this subject.

Who else has an Exige, knows what there documents say and are confident about coverage? Anyone?

 

I have written to Lotus Customer Services to try and get a clear statement.

Martin S

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by MARTIN_S

[C8RKH]

I think only hearing directly from Lotus will put your mind at ease @MARTIN_S so do please let us know how you get on and maybe even post up the response. That way the issue can be permanently put to bed.

[Gashead1105]

1 hour ago, MARTIN_S said:

People can tell me the same thing 4 times and more but though I dont want to annoy anyone,  when it states in two other places clearly, that we are not covered, that gives very mixed information which is the general feeling I get looking at posts on here about this subject.

Who else has an Exige, knows what there documents say and are confident about coverage? Anyone?

 

I have written to Lotus Customer Services to try and get a clear statement.

Martin S

 

 

 

I have an Exige, I know what the documents say and I am confident that there is warranty coverage if you use the car on trackdays in a non-competitive manner without timing. As you have been advised already, please refer to the service notes. Clearly if you do a shed load of trackdays, post repeatedly on public forums about your best lap times and then blow the engine/gearbox you aren't going to be covered, but otherwise it will be fine. You won't get a clear statement from customer services and to be honest I would think most people on here would rather you hadn't written to them because if it is unclear to us, it is unclear to the dealers as well who actually do the work. I have had warranty work done to my car by Silverstone and Hangar 111 with no issues, but I have intentionally kept my car standard.

[MARTIN_S]

I wrote to them as I don't want to rely on warranty work being done based on crossing my fingers and hoping some nice dealer will honour it when there are written statements in the warranty book saying very clearly and in capital letters that Lotus wont. Read the notes in the new vehicle warranty. Page 5, section 2, intended purpose. 

It seems so strange that trying to clarify this seems to bother people.

 

 

[MartynB]

It seems strange that you find it strange. Given that there is an obvious grey area around precisely this question, that Lotus have not been at pains in any way to clarify, each owner has either ignored it or has gone through similar thoughts as you have. Some have decided that although the documents are somewhat self contradictory, the explicit exclusions only mention timed or competitive use. Because of this, and the fact that Lotus have covered people in the past, these owners have mentally put the issue to rest, deciding that on balance they are happy that they should be covered and can point at the lack of exclusion as proof.

When a new voice comes along voicing those old concerns, then of course its going to be slightly bothersome.

FWIW, I think you've done the right thing as far as you are concerned. I suspect you may not get the answer you want, although I hope you do. My guess is that they like to have some wiggle room to meet people part way where they consider the owner to have acted in good faith.

Question is, if Lotus were to come out and say that although the cars are not officially covered for any track use, we will endeavour to assist owners on a case by case basis, would you track it or hedge your risk and stay on the roads?

[C8RKH]

@MartynB  I think you've hit the nail on the head. Lotus have left it vGue, IMHO, on purpose so they have the opportunity to intervene without being obligated to do so.

I expect that if they are forced to clarify, like the OP wants here, then Corporate Risk will kick in and waraanty on "tracked" not raced/timed cars will get excluded.

There are sometimes when black and white is not as good as grey and I suspect the current arrangement gives Lotus more lattitude to help. I certainly have not come across any complaining owners for warranty on "tracked" cars. In fact, I've heard a lot of positive stories that reinforces my trust in Lotus.

[MartynB]

Damn you, Schrödinger!

[Gashead1105]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

@MartynB  I think you've hit the nail on the head. Lotus have left it vague, IMHO, on purpose so they have the opportunity to intervene without being obligated to do so.

I expect that if they are forced to clarify, like the OP wants here, then Corporate Risk will kick in and warranty on "tracked" not raced/timed cars will get excluded.

There are sometimes when black and white is not as good as grey and I suspect the current arrangement gives Lotus more latitude to help. I certainly have not come across any complaining owners for warranty on "tracked" cars. In fact, I've heard a lot of positive stories that reinforces my trust in Lotus.

Picking up your typos  but otherwise exactly the point I was trying to make. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gashead1105

[C8RKH]

Yeah sorry, not easy typing on a phone when you've got the fingers or an gape 

[MARTIN_S]

Ok chaps, I get what your saying. I am new to the Lotus owner way of thinking, so will just leave it to fate now.

If I get no response from Lotus, (I'm not expecting any to be honest)  I will not pursue it and just start hoping, like everyone else here it seems, that everything will just be all ok if it ever comes to it.

Martin S

 

[Bibs]

3 minutes ago, MARTIN_S said:

just start hoping, like everyone else here it seems, that everything will just be all ok if it ever comes to it.

People are basing their opinions on their own experience or that of others. If you buzz the engine on track (or the road as it goes) and it goes pop don't expect Lotus to help, but if your windows stop working and you've done a trackday or two, Lotus are well known to assist still with no issues. Genuine manufacturing faults are covered despite track use, user error is not.

They won't write down that you're covered for any and all track use as it opens their warranty up to abuse by those who cause excess and accelerated wear on circuit. 

[PaulCP]

1 hour ago, MARTIN_S said:

Ok chaps, I get what your saying. I am new to the Lotus owner way of thinking, so will just leave it to fate now.

Martin S

 

Martin, stop worrying and get driving 

A Lotus on track not being covered by warranty is like a washing machine not being covered for washing clothes . I was happy with the responses I received from dealerships when I asked the very same question nearly 2 years ago 

As @Bibs points out, if you buzz the engine then that's down to you, & there will always be the "fair wear & tear" issue, but I don't see a reason to worry about most other things.

[MARTIN_S]

Here is what Lotus said.   I didn't doubt your experiences, I just wanted something a little bit more official than that.

 

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

 

Whilst our formal policy may at first seem contradictory and at odds on how we position our products within the market place, we will not invalidate the warranty if the car is used for occasional (un-timed) track use.

 

Each request for warranty support is review and considered on its own merits/circumstances with the facts as presented to us by the repairing dealer and like any other manufacturer, Lotus reserves the right to decline a request for a warranty repair if we feel the car has been abused, modified or not maintained in accordance with our recommendations.

 

I hope this makes sense?

 

Kind regards,

 

Neil Turner Warranty & Customer Services Manager LOTUS CARS LIMITED, Hethel, Norwich, Norfolk, NR14 8EZ, England T: +44 (0)1603 732194 | E: nturner@lotuscars.com

[MartynB]

Nice result. Very much confirms the general understanding. Good to get it from the horse's mouth though.

[vd9]

This is actually very generous response, I'd never expect something like this from an automotive company. :-)

[C8RKH]

Great response. Bravo Lotus. You really do support your customers to get the maximum out of their cars.