2bular, is it a crappy exhaust?

[RedViper]

1 hour ago, vd9 said:

Jokes aside, for me it is simple - even if 2bular is THE best exhaust for Lotus in the world, I will settle on the next best should I need one at all. And not because of Gekko and Gekko's experience, but because of Jim 

Is that the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face? 

[vd9]

20 minutes ago, RedViper said:

cutting your nose off to spite your face

I think more on the lines of "vote with your wallet/feet" 

[KennyN]

10 minutes ago, RedViper said:

Is that the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face? 

Possibly, or maybe it's a consumer choosing where to spend their money in the hope that they will not be subjected to the rage of the vendor should there be any need to make contact following the purchase.

[RedViper]

My personal experience with 2bular. 

1. Me “I want an exhaust for my V6”

2. Jim “will you track it”

3. Me “occasionally”

4. Jim “in that case you want the track system as I don’t like valved systems in track use” (I argue I want the valved one but he insists it’s not right for track)

5 exhaust arrives and I fit myself and love it. 

6. Me “Jim, it’s probably going to be a bit loud for my local track”

7. Jim “no problem, take these development add on silencers free of charge just let me know the dB readings”

8. Add on silencers arrive (107db with / 98 dB without fyi)

9. Me “Jim, I don’t have the bracket to attach the spring to to hold the add on silencers to the exhaust”

10. Jim “no probs let me get the brackets I use posted out to you and you can get them welded on yourself locally”

What more could he have possibly done. I have no affiliation with 2bular but based on my experience I can’t help but speak up on this topic  

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by RedViper

[C8RKH]

29 minutes ago, KennyN said:

Possibly, or maybe it's a consumer choosing where to spend their money in the hope that they will not be subjected to the rage of the vendor should there be any need to make contact following the purchase.

Sorry but this again is unfair.  The rage was as a result of a social media post, without the full facts or details, calling his products crappy. I've had manifolds from Jim and the product and service was fantastic. As this is ONE persons experience and it was positive I assume this is now enough to sway you to use the products as much as one persons negative experience was to sway you from it.

The only person probably enjoying this thread is Gekko as it seems he has achieved his assumed objective of damaging a suppliers reputation whilst not in my humble opinion providing the full facts.

[Lo2zz]

Just now, C8RKH said:

Sorry but this again is unfair.  The rage was as a result of a social media post, without the full facts or details, calling his products crappy. I've had manifolds from Jim and the product and service was fantastic. As this is ONE persons experience and it was positive I assume this is now enough to sway you to use the products as much as one persons negative experience was to sway you from it.

The only person probably enjoying this thread is Gekko as it seems he has achieved his assumed objective of damaging a suppliers reputation whilst not in my humble opinion providing the full facts.

Going one further it was only rage after:

- Buyer ordering wrong exhaust 

- sending a replacement exhaust (FOC from what I can gather)

- Using the exhaust on track - which isn't warrantied

- Spinning off track and ending up in gravel at high speed

- Driving back on track after the spin and not noticing there might be an exhaust leak 

- Incendiary posts on this forum 

- Claims of Chinese manufacture

How would anyone else react?

Like to think there has been an element of balance brought to the thread by people that have known Jim for years and had nothing but great service 

[Maxi_z]

I read with interest the topic and even if I do not want to upset anyone (and for that I would better just keep reading only lol) I thought I would add some comments in no particular order.

I would say that apart the fact that there is some a little too agressive tone on both parts (that are probably not necessary or polite even if I have the opinion that they should be tolarated a little more from a random consumer that is there to buy a product and spend money while a company should do all they can to stay professional but let s not start a debate for that just my opinion) I would also say that the consumer did not ask for any refund or anything similar (and remember he s not complaining about just an exhaust failure but a fire damage to the car) while on the other hand the exhaust company offered a free track exhaust and probably good advice so I think both parties have some legitimate behaviour.

I never bought anything from 2bular as when I owned a cup 260 I send a few emails without any reply and then read about those very long delivery times...

That s not for me... I prefer to search some company that reply and have products in stock or second hand or whatever... I understand that probably it s a small company but just not for me...

I might as well have changed car when the exhaust would be there lol

I also think there are other valid companies or options but would be ok for a 2bular if they would be in stock

On the other hand looking at 2bular website I would say that their exhaust are really well made (not talking about the materials as I don t know but they do look good) and well engineered.

When I read the blog on 2bular or the descriptions of the different technical specifications I would really say that Jim knows what he talks about (look at the engine protection kit and the good advice of removing the stock manifold catalyzers not because of the performance increases but because of heat and potential engine problems if one brakes)... and even now when he talks about the exhaust supports that Lotus uses that are not okay.

Here is what I think the problem is... some of the Lotus oem weak points especially as soon as you modify something.

The OP had other sports cars and I agree that I never heard about an exhaust failure due to spinning on track on other cars.... Even if now that I read about it it could make sense of course...

So you would think that after spending a lot on an exige cup 380 and adding what you tought the best exhaust available you should not have this kind of problems at all...

Is it the fault of the supplier of the exhaust? Of Lotus that keep using some parts that have some weakness or can create some faults if used hard on track? Of the consumer expectations?

Probably a little bit of all but at the end all of those companies make money out of that and they will do all the marketing they can to make you feel that a cup car is the best possible track tool and track is it s intended main use...

Another thing to keep in mind is that in Italy or France the trackdays are usually much more flat out than in usa or uk and many people even if respecting each other will drive in a way more near to racing than in uk...

We tend to not have db limits on most tracks to be able to overtake as we want and to be less gentle on the car... Of course there can be different groups and all is made to make things go well.

Probably the OP thought that not to use a valved exhaust on track was a recomandation in case the head would damage the valve itself but did not think that the complete exhaust could fail if used on track.

Maybe instead of looking for arguments everyone should learn a little... 2bular to improve the communication (lol) and maybe find out some system that could make the exhaust brackets bend or something before braking the exhaust if used on track the OP to not expect everything to work as expected and Lotus.... no Lotus no.... they will continue to use the old brackets

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Maxi_z

[Mark030358]

Re quality of work, A 2bular EPK as fitted to a 380 sport during a KT 460 upgrade, with super dyno results, torque especially. Super quality, super fit, super sound. I have my opinions on this thread, but I'm keeping them to myself. Out of interest before this thread started, Jim's fitting instructions specifically state not to use the intermediate exhaust hanger.

To be fair I always treat as I find.

cheers

Mark

 

[KennyN]

@C8RKH@Lo2zz

I really don't have an axe to grind in any of this, but if and when the time comes for me to consider purchasing an exhaust I will appraise the market and spend my money where I see fit.  My decision will be based on a number of factors, this thread is only one example of where a vendors style may influence my decision, but it's certainly not an isolated incident.

It would appear that Gekko has failed to disclose/confirm all of the facts, I'm not disputing that, but as a business owner there are ways to address such claims from a disgruntled customer and come out of the situation with dignity intact and quite possibly a few more orders if it is done with a level head.  Equally, this applies to a customer, if there is an issue, discuss it with the vendor in a constructive manner and allow them to work with you to resolve the issue.  As far as I'm concerned, they're both at fault, getting into a name-calling exchange on the internet achieves nothing more than amusement for the bystanders.

[Taylor]

I’ve just been advised of this thread and quite timeley too as I’ve just published a detailed video yesturday on the new 2bular manifolds and exhaust system plus some other updates I’ve installed on my Lotus Elise Cup Race Car for this season.

If you want to see the quality of this system in detail check it out 👇

VIDEO >> New Exhaust & Manifolds for Lotus Elise Race Car!!! + Build Update | Racing Diaries #4 

In regards to Jim / 2bular, as a paying customer, my experience with him has been nothing but informative, honest and helpful.

Just a few weeks ago I called for advice on a system for my race car (to be used on track only). He was very detailed, steered me in the right direction and offered a solution which he thought would work best.

He was honest with noise levels and offered and sent 2 de-cat options one which includes a very well designed silenced de-cat pipe. He advised about options on the silencer and offered me the choice of single skin lighter weight options or heavier double skinned but more durable...

Overall it was very refreshing speaking with someone so passionate about his product and so honest. There really was no sales tactic at all and really didn’t want to waste my money on something he did not think would work.

There was absolutely no hint of him outsourcing to crappy chinese suppliers as the opp suggests or leads you to believe, in fact it felt quite the opposite and judging by the sheer quality as demonstrated in my video and the fact they were made to order and took a few weeks theres absolutely no way anything was scrimped or saved on this system.

I know if a Elise Cup Car running his silencer during the last half of the Lotus Cup UK Season last year plus multiple test days and havn’t heard of any issues from him. Of course, I’m happy to update this thread in a couple of months time after some hard testing and racing but I certainly don’t expect any part of the exhaust to brake after a few trackdays!

P.S This is just my personal experience so far and I think it’s good to add some balance to this as one sided threads on a clearly isolated case can really ruin a reputation of a small business.

 

 

[RoflOnMyWaffle]

The sound is worth it. Sounds mega - can't imagine their loudest version, which aren't valved, right?

[mark248am]

Thats my video

I miss my Exige S, the 2bulars sounded good but they also looked great.

[RobWaring]

I bought an exhaust from Jim in 2008 for my S2 Elise.  It sounded great, fitted well and I had no problems during the 7 years I had the car. he did take 3 months to get t to me, but I guess he is busy.

[Celica]

Found this thread via google

 

have owners of 2bular exhausts held up over the years and mileage as good as oem fit and finish?

[C8RKH]

@Celica not aware of any quality issues. I fitted a set of headers on to my NA Evora and after 6 years they are still going strong.

Delivery timescales and communication seem to be the main gripes, but certainly not quality.

[Adam MJ]

I've recently recieved a 2Bular exhaust for my Elise 220 Sport from Jim.

The stock exhaust really let the car down and I wanted something loud and thought I wanted the 7". Had a conversation with Jim beforehand and his advice and knowledge was really good. Decided to go with his recommendation of what he called an 8" Hybrid.

Just had it fitted and the sound is awesome without being too loud at low revs. So glad I took his advice and the build quality & welding is fantastic.

I had seen a lot of complaints about leadtime on various forums, so I was pleasently surprised to recieve mine within 2 weeks 🙂 (I am in the UK though)

No complaints from me and would thoroughly recommend 2Bular

[Rambo]

I have a 2Bular exhaust on my Evora and the sound is fantastic. 

At Silverstone last year I let rip in Copse tunnel and had 2 blokes chase me over to the Club Lotus stand to find ot what it was. Both of them thought it was better than the McLaren 2 ahead of me 👍

Edited November 18, 2022 by Rambo
Copse sp.

[C8RKH]

I had Jim's manifolds on my Evora NA. Totally transformed the car. Really totally, sound and power.

[Gashead1105]

Soooooo... if/when my cup 260 is sold (currently available at Lotus Silverstone if anyone is interested), I'm looking at getting into a final edition V6 exige, probably a 390. 

Given that it's running the Evora 400 power train I assume it will be pretty damn loud. I want to do some trackdays so guess an aftermarket silencer is needed. Are there any new options on the market in this regard? I've not had a problem with 2bular personally, bought one for my 260 a couple of years ago and it's been great (although a little slow in delivery). But interested to see if there's anything new. I'm aware of the usual larini/komotec/H111/Quiksilver options obviously.  

Cheers Will