ECU, Engine, Injector, Coils or something else

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Bloody marvelous - after chasing this problem for a few weeks and doing this that and the other...think I have solved it, well almost. 

Yesterday after yet more extensive reading, fired up the engine again ( no cats etc) ....let it warm a bit and blipped the throttle several times........voila ! .............no smoke haze

As per above, old Siemens relay fitted so can only conclude its a intermitant relay fault/issue.

Not wanting to tempt fate but expect if I try again today it may be okay or not .......relay or relay socket as this area is under the rear wing mountings so water may have got in there perhaps. Need to order another so that part number if not available from Lotus would be very helpful (or a link to the your post sailor bob).

Looking at the positives, new plugs, injectors seals, secondary seals, coil packs, fuel pumps, fuel filter, tank cleaned out, fresh fuel and various checks on injectors for flow etc etc. So those are known to be good and shouldnt play up for some time.

Brilliant help and without this forum I would have been well and truly knackered.

( Whoops I still havent renewed my subs) ....get that done today Bibs !

 

 

[mike_sekinger]

Some encouraging news there Paul.  Please provide an update if you get into a steady state.  It could be breaking and making of contacts solved the issue.

Still plenty of drive-time left before Winter 🙂

[sailorbob]

The part number for the brown Siemens relay is B082M6182F.

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Many Thanks.

Will update this post when I get to that steady state Mike, soon-ish I hope.

 

 

 

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

The saga continues .......

Removed parts including cats, exhaust re-installed. Cranked over fast yesterday and although a little smokey initially ran pretty good. Engine pulls strong and without misfire although with window open, get the odd whiff of fuel and can still hear the odd popping from one bank of cylinders. Thoughts were to run for a bit to see if it sorts itself out and added a few gallons of 99 octane shell + some Redex fuel treatment into tank . Engine warning light on possibly due to running without cats/O2 sensors.

Car booked in for MOT.

Start car this evening ......purrs and runs smooth. No engine check lights !!

Then as per my first posts on this thread - reverse, then forward onto highway, few hundred yards and then turn left, misfire and running on 6 or 7 cylinders. Nurse the throttle up the hill and back on 7 sometimes 8 cylinders. (thinking FPR) as with some throttle it appears to run okay-ish (thought I had verified the FPR was working correctly before with fuel pressure tester, engine running and vacuum pipe removed from FPR and pressure drops, reinstall and back to correct fuel pressure indicated by gauge) 

Drive around the block approx 2 miles and not running  right. Return to base, park and switch off, running  on less than 8 cylinders .

Fuel pump relays checked and these are warm ( not hot just warm)

Pulled these and installed 2 new TYCO relays (delivered today) which the supplier said are the same as the Siemens items and sourced from Louts so will be okay. Anyone know different then please advise.

Fired up after much cranking, running on 5/6 or so cylinders.

Stop engine, re-installed old relays and not enough charge to start hot engine ... (not checked voltage - poor light) and besides bit pissed off with it anyway

Working on my own with this other than forum assistance so am I missing the obvious .......??

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barrykearley]

The random running almost points to either an electrical gremlin, fuel contamination or gummed injectors?? All very strange - I do hope you get to the bottom of this

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Thanks Barry ......running out of ideas

Tanks were drained when I installed the new fuel pump assembly, fresh Shell 99 octane fuel - 5 gallons , injectors flow tested so electrical gremlins likely. Paranoia creeping in perhaps but gauges seem to fluctuate and im talking oil pressure, and temp gauge ......earth fault perhaps but that said, if the engine to chassis earth was bad then starting or lights etc would not function and these are okay.

Cursing solves nothing but sure does help sometimes .......neighbours probably think I have tourettes though  

 

[Barrykearley]

Ahh - v8 - engine earthing issues.....

try a jump lead from the -ve of the battery directly to the engine block. There’s a post on here from @swindon_alan whom had issues 

 

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Thanks Barry.

I did run an extra earth strap from the battery negative to the chassis some time ago as cranking from cold always seemed a bit lethargic (that helped). Will try a jump lead from battery to block and see if that helps.

As swindon alan said in his post, whats causes the confusion is more current would be required to start form cold but this is the reverse so it seems but corrosion between the wire strands could well be the cause of this issue. May even explain the popping and less than correct running on one bank of cylinders.

Had considered that the battery was possibly knackered as only a few starts and a couple of short runs wouldnt normally result in a low voltage battery. Will test battery voltage this morning before I attempt to start the engine.

 

[mike_sekinger]

Just a side-though on battery - did you check that your alternator is good? 

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Not checked the alternator Mike as other than few short runs Wednesday been concentrating efforts on establishing a smooth running engine.

Cant rule the charging circuit, however a fully charged battery should have enough charge to run for several miles without he alternator but it could be the battery plates or something shorting and discharging quickly.  

 

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Battery voltage checked this morning before starting - 12.4 volts.

Cranked okay, fired up and engine running smooth (8 cylinders !). Alternator voltage checked across battery terminals @ idle 11.4 volts similar @ 2000rpm 

New alternator required ! (cross reference anyone)

 

[sailorbob]

15 hours ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Pulled these and installed 2 new TYCO relays (delivered today) which the supplier said are the same as the Siemens items and sourced from Louts so will be okay. Anyone know different then please advise.

I would measure the coil resistances and check for myself as the number of times I have been sold parts and been told they are the same only to find out they are not.

6 minutes ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Cranked okay, fired up and engine running smooth (8 cylinders !). Alternator voltage checked across battery terminals @ idle 11.4 volts similar @ 2000rpm

I have just looked at the datalog you posted before and that shows 11.3 - 11.4 volts at idle.

Hopefully you have found the source of all your problems.

[swindon_alan]

The Esprit Cross Reference Section is your friend @modifiedv8engines Paul.

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Thanks Alan

[mike_sekinger]

2 hours ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Not checked the alternator Mike as other than few short runs Wednesday been concentrating efforts on establishing a smooth running engine.

The reason for mentioning was that I had a customer car that was running rough due to bad alternator.  Changing the alternator made an instant difference.

 

[swindon_alan]

That's a very good call Mike, the alternator dragging the volts down. I think I will add this to my hot start problem thread, perhaps a warm alternator is susceptible to this type of failure as well?

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

New alternator on order. 

Also checked voltage from battery - ve to engine block with engine running , 0.02 volts so nothing unusual there.

Maybe the going round and round in circles has stopped. We shall see

 

[tmusc]

Before you replace your alternator. Make sure the charge light is not burnt out. The light is in series with the field wire. No light = no charge.

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Good point Tony - my brother mentioned similar 5 minutes ago and asked if the charge warning light was on .... which it wasnt.

Other than instrument binnacle removal is there any other way to check this bulb ?

Out of interest Mike, in the above post .....was the alternator warning light illuminated ?

 

 

[swindon_alan]

14 minutes ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Other than instrument binnacle removal is there any other way to check this bulb ?

Hmmm. @modifiedv8engines It should come on anyway with the ignition on and the engine not started?

To make sure it is not blown you could disconnect the warning light feed near the alternator, it's an NY = brown & yellow wire and earth it with the ignition turned on to check it.

 

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Thanks Alan, thats very helpful  ......but mine doesnt ! Been more than a bit transfixed over that engine check light which should perhaps have a demons head lit up, a £ sign or a miserable face emoji rather than the soft yellow glow

Completely overlooked the charge tell-tale light in my haste to resolve the engine running issues. More than a bit tired of it tbh and something it seems no-one else other than @tmusc had thought to mention .....but I suppose why would they. 

Always the small things that are overlooked ......and I think ramp required (thats if I can get to a ramp)

[tmusc]

If the charge lamp is not on when the car is put in the run position but not started it is burnt out. The alternator will not charge. If you want to know how i learned that lesson the hard way is taking out the alternator 2 times having it bench tested and rebuilt two times, car leaving me stranded due to it not charging for a 99 cent light. To replace the light you have to remove the binnacle cover and just pop in the new light. Instrument panel does not have to come out. I am thinking about rewiring with a diode to ensure it does not happen again. In other words fixing it the way it should have been built.

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Thanks for that info Tony.

Not an easy job unless you have a ramp as access is limited but is possible with patience but I wouldnt want to do it twice and a valuable tip on checking the charge light once the new alternator is fitted.

 

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

Latest news ....after much work, head scratching, head banging, requests for assistance, cuts, bruises, hands/arms that look like I have been fighting a Wild Cat, I can report today the latest episode of "Man vs Esprit" ended in my favour. About effing time too and subject to an MOT next week, some much deserved drives. 

Not a quick job to do on axle stands - New alternator installed ( no need to move or remove anything, just spanners, 8,13,17mm & sockets, tape to hold the nut/washer on the top mounting and a 1/2wrench to slacken/tighten the belt - string comes in handy to allow the alt to swing over and hold when installing the top bolt/nut), partly fried signal wire cut-back, repaired and soldered, replacement bulb for the charge "idiot" light (yes I know should have checked this first but in hindsight..... ) and engine purrs, no smoke haze, no popping from bank #1 cylinder bank and voltmeter confirms 14.6 v. .......charging.

Thanks to you all for your valuable input and help.

On inspecting the rattly old alternator it appears the brushes or similar have broken up ........this I suspect was the high pitched/dentist drill sound I heard when first running the car in July this year. Smoke haze from turbo possibly residual oil from standing for months and the new fuel pumps, coils, plugs, relays etc etc should prevent issues in those areas for a while. 

Looking forward to test drive on route to the MOT ( the long way 😉)