Brexit

[march]

Just a little reminder of what the Government stated prior to the referendum. Surely this makes the referendum a little more than just 'advisory' to the government.

Page 13 of the government pamphlet:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

 

[Barrykearley]

Slapping my thigh whilst shouting "hell yes" ?

[Iconic Ride]

8 hours ago, molemot said:

 (Oh, by the way, I currently live in Englefield Green....I do move about a lot.)

The last duel in England

"The last fatal duel in England took place on Priest Hill in 1852. It was between two French refugees..."

 

So John, who's the other French emigre? 

 

Just finished reading the last several pages, after a bit of a hiatus from this thread...which I (as a colonial eavesdropper, seeking educational enlightenment) am entirely unqualified to make other than the most general of benighted observations/comments...and was quite pleased to see the "morphing" of the discussion from borderline denigration back to the forum's usual respect for differing points of view. Whewww!

It is going to take me some time to fully understand the [apparently] complex interplay between Parliament (Commons and Lords), the Monarchy (largely ceremonial I know), the lack of a formal written Constitution, the various political parties and their nomenclature (and the voter proclivities they represent), the Prime Minister, and the UK Supreme Court. Not to mention the Knights Templar..just kidding...more a French invention than English.

Anyway, carry on my friends, and I will attempt to keep my unlettered comments to a minimum.

[Chillidoggy]

17 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Was not aware of that, my bad. However, the questions was  Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?   That is not what we have now though is it? It has quietly morphed, whilst we have sleepwalked along, into some thing very much darker, more sinister, and above the law of countries!

 

Not only did I post the link for interest, I also did so to point out that what we signed up for originally is not what we have now. I've said it before: The EU has morphed from a 'free-trade' organisation into a monster. It is no longer what the British people signed up to, it is no longer fit for purpose. Were it a commercial business, then its failure to adapt would have meant complete collapse a while ago. And if it continues in its current form, then at some point we will have a European super-state over which Europeans have no say. Sadly, the signs of that nightmare have been with us for some time.

I would have preferred Britain to stay in an EU that went back to the basic of free-trade, but the EU mandarins on the gravy train were not prepared to witness their powers draining away. As for freedom of movement, the original EU treaty-makers could not have foreseen today's staggering numbers of immigrants, thus once again the treaty is not fit for today's conditions, and it urgently needs to change.

Whether or not you agree with it, the referendum question was a quite clear: "in or out", and (at the risk of generating friction), today's 'cake and eat it' generation should accept that's what's going to happen. It isn't necessarily going to be easy, but with luck they should be able to keep their smart phones and big-screen TV's.

Brexit is not a short-term, get-rich-quick scheme, rather it's a long-term one for the benefit of the country.

 

[Barrykearley]

6 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

. It isn't necessarily going to be easy, but with luck they should be able to keep their smart phones and big-screen TV's.

 

All made in China and the Far East. Don't worry - big screen TVs are safe so watching Jeremy Kyle into the brave new world of Brexit is secured

[C8RKH]

Wow, so it now seems that Scotland is more important than the whole rest of the UK!  My god. I hope Queen Nicola understands that when she next comes forwards with an Indyref all of this interference will be well remembered and repaid with interest. God help us. The rUK will crucify us with an independence settlement as a result of this and the other stuff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37909299

[theelanman]

anything to stick a spanner or knife or whatever in.....she has a comment on anything and everything of which she has rock all to do with....

I think that she should sort out Scotland and her own party's poor poor show on anything they've been involved with......

lets face it she only after who ever can give the biggest hand out.....probably hoping it'll cover up the almighty cock up in the finances up there so far

[C8RKH]

A colleague has just told me that she has just lost several billion in Chinese investment. No doubt this Brexit news will be an attempt to cover up / hide the investment news. They really are that shallow.

I do worry though, living here, that the rUK will see this "noise" from the SNP in an increasing anti-English / anti-rUK light and this is going to create an environment of hate. I just cannot see it ending well, especially if or when Scotland tries to negotiate a soft exit from the rUK. It will be carnage.

Also, given that she says if Brexit is against Scots will and they do not want to leave the EU, whilst the rUK (and a good chunk of Scots too) does and therefore we should respect it, what would happen in Indyref2 if the same argument was used against. Scotland leaving rUk affects us all, so rUK says NO and she and her SNP cronies need to respect that? Oh my, can you imagine the reaction. It would be war and the fields of bannockburn and culloden would be awash with tartan and pipes all over again, lined up against the rUK's forces.  Oh my. She seems to have forgotten that to get an Indyref2 she needs the consent of Westminster. The very people she is now so hugely pissing off. I used to think she was clever, now i am not so sure to be honest.

[theelanman]

Id go as far as saying between her and Salmond they're just a pair of English haters who are whipping up the nationalist sentiment and living on it.....and at each opportunity shouting down the Tories or the English as if we were persecuting them

[C8RKH]

Agreed. But the reality is the persecution will truly begin when the rUK, a nation of 60m people, lines up against Scotland, a nation of 5.5m, to negotiate Scotland's divorce. I just cannot seeing ending well, if at all.

Then to top it off, what about the 3 EU member stated who have flatly told the Scottish Government that there will be no special deal for Scotland in the EU, no automatic entry, and no special favours. In fact they said they would actively oppose it!

[pete]

what part of UNITED kingdom doesn`t she understand. Fed up with her now,i say give her way,forget a referendum and  let her have her independent scotland

[100th_Idiot]

She's grandstanding for the home support. The argument that devolved parliaments must approve the triggering of A50 won't wash with the supreme court although I do not think the SC will overrule the current ruling on the constitution as it would set a dangerous precedent.

As for rUK lining up against Scotland in any divorce proceeding to make it difficult you can say exactly the same about the EU and the UK.

It will be messy.

[C8RKH]

I agree with the idiot ^^^  (lol, enjoyed that!)  the big difference i think being that the EU has just as much to lose, if not arguably more (looking at balance of import/export business and cash contribution to the central coffers) than the rUK would arguably have from a departing Scotland.

[100th_Idiot]

1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

I agree with the idiot ^^^  (lol, enjoyed that!)  the big difference i think being that the EU has just as much to lose, if not arguably more (looking at balance of import/export business and cash contribution to the central coffers) than the rUK would arguably have from a departing Scotland.

Maybe but the EU is not one country. So while Germany and France may have a lot to lose the other 25 states have much less and they all need to ratify any new deal. It's going to take a lot of arm twisting.

[C8RKH]

I beg to differ. i have a feeling in my water ( hopefully not cystitis! ) that the reason May is keeping her powder dry is that she has a cunning plan. I think she will invoke A50 on time. Then after a short period og negotiating bluster she will declare negotiations over. Ireconcilable differences will be declared and negotiations will cease.

We will then invoke standard WTO trade tariffs ( which we will be able to ) and she will declare Britain open for business. Our corporation tax will be reduced by say 5-7% which will negate most of the tariffs and the pound will fall further making us a lower cost manufacturing location too. Our obsession with German cars will continue but they will be priced as a much higher premium product due to tariff and pound values resulting in a significant loss of revenues to said German car makers. one of Europes most significant export markets will start to dry up. Sending the already crippled Eurozone economy into a downward death spiral. The faceless euro bureaucrat shits will sense panic is setting in and a deal will be done to give us access to the single market without the majority of the other baggage.

The world order will be restored. Britain will be Great again.

You see you are merely an idiot. As you can see, I, am a fully paid up & certified lunatic!  

 

 

 

 

[100th_Idiot]

I think it may take longer as it is not just about trade. There are lots of little complications such as pension transfer rights etc. that will take time to unravel. In some regards I think the approach you outline may be the best way rather than a long drawn out process ending at essentially the same point. 

We can only watch and see.

And maybe buy some dollars.

[Steve V8]

3 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:

Maybe but the EU is not one country. So while Germany and France may have a lot to lose the other 25 states have much less and they all need to ratify any new deal. It's going to take a lot of arm twisting.

Andy, have you not been paying attention? The EU is Germany and France, or so they seem to think. The two sharks, with 25 little fish tagging along picking up the scraps. 

 

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I beg to differ. i have a feeling in my water ( hopefully not cystitis! ) that the reason May is keeping her powder dry is that she has a cunning plan. I think she will invoke A50 on time. Then after a short period og negotiating bluster she will declare negotiations over. Ireconcilable differences will be declared and negotiations will cease.

We will then invoke standard WTO trade tariffs ( which we will be able to ) and she will declare Britain open for business. Our corporation tax will be reduced by say 5-7% which will negate most of the tariffs and the pound will fall further making us a lower cost manufacturing location too. Our obsession with German cars will continue but they will be priced as a much higher premium product due to tariff and pound values resulting in a significant loss of revenues to said German car makers. one of Europes most significant export markets will start to dry up. Sending the already crippled Eurozone economy into a downward death spiral. The faceless euro bureaucrat shits will sense panic is setting in and a deal will be done to give us access to the single market without the majority of the other baggage.

The world order will be restored. Britain will be Great again.

You see you are merely an idiot. As you can see, I, am a fully paid up & certified lunatic!  

 

 

 

 

@C8RKH for president, brilliant take.

Back to the previous comments about Nicola Sturgeon, I've never seen such an open ant shut case of racism,  the hatered  for the English that comes from that ridiculous evil woman is beyond belief. 

[C8RKH]

I'm thinking about changing my name by deed pool to "Ronald Fart" and running for prime minister!  "Together, we will make Britain Great again!"

[Andyww]

16 minutes ago, Buddsy said:

Im not trying to sound melodramatic nor do I wish to be see to incite violence of any kind but if we do not leave the EU I honestly believe there could be serious consequences to the state of the nation. The remainians have given us leavers so much grief over the last few months. Im sure a state of civil war would easily ensue.

Buddsy

I am not sure thats the case. I think there would be a bit of a kerfuffle and then it would die down. 

If anything happens which the rabid Left object to, thats a different matter. Poll tax riots for example or those senseless protests like the Million Mask thing the other day, but the people who voted Leave are the silent majority. They (or we) are not even active on social media. I cant remember seeing a pro-leave post on Facebook, but a constant stream of whinging remainers have never let up since the referendum.

[Andyww]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I beg to differ. i have a feeling in my water ( hopefully not cystitis! ) that the reason May is keeping her powder dry is that she has a cunning plan. I think she will invoke A50 on time. Then after a short period og negotiating bluster she will declare negotiations over. Ireconcilable differences will be declared and negotiations will cease.

We will then invoke standard WTO trade tariffs ( which we will be able to ) and she will declare Britain open for business. Our corporation tax will be reduced by say 5-7% which will negate most of the tariffs and the pound will fall further making us a lower cost manufacturing location too. Our obsession with German cars will continue but they will be priced as a much higher premium product due to tariff and pound values resulting in a significant loss of revenues to said German car makers. one of Europes most significant export markets will start to dry up. Sending the already crippled Eurozone economy into a downward death spiral. The faceless euro bureaucrat shits will sense panic is setting in and a deal will be done to give us access to the single market without the majority of the other baggage.

 

Provided leave doesnt get scuppered by the people (ab)using legal mechanisms, thats the most likely scenario. David Davis is a competent enough guy and I am sure he has thought of this. The whinging that the remainers go on about having no plan is nonsense. The above very likely is the plan but of course nobody can admit to this up front for obvious reasons.

The German industry bodies have already told Merkel that they want a free trade deal with the UK some time ago.

A 10% tariff on German car imports, while it lasts, would be useful extra revenue to offset reduction in corporation tax.

[C8RKH]

I think @Buddsy that whilst Civil War may not ensue, after all, we'd need to sit down, have a cup of tea and chocolate hob knob before we went to war, it would create massive divisions across the UK as whole that would take many years to heal, if they healed at all.

All the focus is on the doom and gloom of Brexit. Look at the Eurozone. Switzerland walked away and said no thanks.  Turkey have just about said get stuffed - it's coming.  The other states wanting in to the EU are poorer who eye the prize of EU internal investment and subsidies to help them grow after years of decline ( granted thanks to the old communist regimes).  The common market is growing in terms of people, but the size or the value of the market is not growing to the same extent.  This is going to put massive pressure on the "healthier" economies - the German, the French, The Dutch et al, will all be expected to pay and contribute for this growth. How much more will they take?

I truly believe the Eurozone is heading for a correction. The removal of our huge levy and crucially our huge import market, is going to leave a cataclysmic whole in the EU's finances. That is why they will negotiate hard and try to crucify us. That is why we need to call no success in negotiation and go it under WTO deals. Will the reaminers take full responsibility in the event of the Eurozone crashing in the future and if we are apart of it, crashing us too?  Of course they won't, they just look to find someone else to blame.  At least Brexiteers had or have the stomach to actually do something, to strive for something different, as opposed to just maintaining the status quo through fear of change.

And it looks like Trump has one. Wow, what a year in politics. The establishment must be trembling all over the western world. France next? Then Germany?  The people will see that anything, including change, is now possible. Wow, talk about the "people" being empowered. The world is now a very scary place to live. Let's hope we can rise up to the challenge, overcome the fear, and make it a better, fairer and more just world.  

[Mark Blanchard]

Trump described Brexit as a "Great Victory."  With him as President now my guess is there more chance of the UK getting a good trade deal with the States. 

[Andyww]

31 minutes ago, Mark Blanchard said:

Trump described Brexit as a "Great Victory."  With him as President now my guess is there more chance of the UK getting a good trade deal with the States. 

Indeed. Fortunately in general the UK politicians have resisted the temptation to slag him off, knowing that they might have to work with him. This is despite being repeatedly goaded into doing so by journalists and on BBC Question Time.

Trump will likely be totally out of his depth as president and he might even see the UK as a country to look towards for guidance, which would put us in a very good position. The French, Germans etc must be pissing themselves this morning. 

[j2 lot]

Sturgeon wasn't smart enough to keep quiet and threw her weight behind Clinton yesterday when all the polls were suggesting she would win. Not to mention withdrawing his Business Ambassador status last year. I guess Wee Jimmy will have some 'sookin up' to do if he does appear at Prestwick airport anytime soon 

Edited November 9, 2016 by j2 lot
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[Iconic Ride]

On 11/8/2016 at 13:45, 100th_Idiot said:

And maybe buy some dollars.

No problem. I will buy your pounds at 1 to 1 parity. P.M me at your earliest opportunity.