Brexit

[basalte]

Well, sincere congrats chaps, I am in the minority (believe me  not for the first time). I hope that things work out particularly job and sales wise for people , most posters on this thread got their democratic day . If it makes for a happier day for you  I can`t argue with that. 

I love my (relatively) democratic country with its overwhelming majority of decent people of whatever race colour creed and I obviously respect the decision -  the British way is that we rub along ,

And to think  I originally came to the esteemed TLF  because I have a beloved Elite 2.2 (but like many, also have opinions about life, politics  etc)

But it does not stop me commenting that those who voted leave have been conned by people who pretend to share their love for this country when  what they want is money and power.

I `m certain that we are all agreed here  that a love for money and power in itself does not make anyone a patriot.

Yes. I will underline conned. And I will repost this at the appropriate time.

I feel strongly that that circumstance has come about. Some are already finding out with the £350 million promise to NHS being -hmm,  let`s see now who`d have thought it ?

Broken. 

Shall we all now vote to man the barricades of Gibraltar ?    

[Chillidoggy]

What I find shocking are all the streams of vitriol and personal insults by the Remain camp on social media, directed at those who, like them, simply exercised their right to vote. Plus, as has already been mentioned, those that accuse the leave voters of being intellectually sub-normal. 

Stop acting like spolit kids, this is what's called democracy.

 

 

[march]

I echo Ian's comments. Carina has just been checking Facebook and the amount of vitriol from people we call friends is astonishing. We may be in the minority but we both agree that if remain had won our response would have been - Oh well, at least we had our chance to vote. The more surprising thing is these friends are well educated and successful, one is even a head teacher another a successful business owner.

I really hope none of my posts here have caused offence to anyone, and I apologise if I have, I usually try and use humour on these pages (hopefully not too childish) but I admit to responding to comments I have felt unfair or perhaps a slight on my views. Please can we all respect each others views without belittling them and keep the forum the factual and entertaining place it has always been.

Anyway we can't afford that Chateau in France any more so we are stuck here for better or worse, probably could still buy a Greek island though.

[comem47]

He's slipped into Scotland after preparing himself for his future UK subjects. Tag your it, he's yours !!! 

[franjipane]

If you think the remain supporters are insulting because of the result you should have a look at some of the more right wing Facebook groups. Absolutely horrendous, I took one look and had to close it.

There's no need for insults. From anyone.

I agree that the country has been conned into voting for something which is not going to help those who most need it.  And many seemed not to understand what was at stake. The FT ran a graph that shows the places the leave vote was strongest in places most dependent on the EU.  Then there's the places that aren't going to receive EU funding anymore, highly doubt a far right Tory party is going to match those funds and keep those communities alive. Just sad.

[Chillidoggy]

Apparently Sir Bob Geldoff is giving up his knighthood as a result of Brexit.

Best laugh I've had all day!

[franjipane]

Hah! If true that is hilarious.  The guy needs to stop getting involved in politics, and end his live aid stuff too that just persists the old perception of Africa.

[Barrykearley]

No such thing as Eu funding @franjipane - where do they get their money from ? The cash point fairy?? No - it comes from all the member states - for clarity that's us the great unwashed voters and taxpayers.

what the voters have been utterly conned about is the constant erosion of our independence sleep walking into the United federal states of Europe. This is the first time we have had a say in decades. In all that time successive governments have handed over power after power to the EU. The electorate no matter what anyone thinks of them have spoken - I'd respect it what ever way as we live in a democracy. I had years of a labour government under tony Blair - and I hated it - but accepted that it was the democratically elected government of the time. Now we enter a new phase - I'm slightly nervous - but I am optimistic that change will occur.

migration whatever your views - is it really such a great thing that so many great workers move out of a poor country to another country? We are currently taking talent from these poorer countries and leaving them with far less of a talent pool. This is not good for the growth and future prosperity of smaller countries. This has knock on effects that will not be seen for decades.

As for Bob geldof - another multimillionaire who is so far detached from the average working man on the street...... Clearly the irony of the way the European Union treats poor African countries is entirely lost on him. 

[C8RKH]

35 minutes ago, franjipane said:

If you think the remain supporters are insulting because of the result you should have a look at some of the more right wing Facebook groups. Absolutely horrendous, I took one look and had to close it.

There's no need for insults. From anyone.

I agree that the country has been conned into voting for something which is not going to help those who most need it.  And many seemed not to understand what was at stake. The FT ran a graph that shows the places the leave vote was strongest in places most dependent on the EU.  Then there's the places that aren't going to receive EU funding anymore, highly doubt a far right Tory party is going to match those funds and keep those communities alive. Just sad.

@franjipane I really do love reading your posts, and do hope you do not feel I am bullying you by responding to them, but I just cannae stop being compelled to respond.

How can you say the country has been conned?  Do you know this for a fact, or, as I suspect are you just expressing an opinion? 

You live in Guildford I see. That's Surrey isn't it? Please tell me, when was the last time you spent any considerable time in these "places most dependent on the EU". Are you commenting from experience, or what you've read in the papers or seen on the TV? I really would love to know.  

The fact is that the North of England has sent a message to the rest of the country that was last sent around 1215 when King John was in power and that resulted in the Magna Carta. There are whole regions of the UK, outside of the South East of England, that feel that they have been ignored, abandoned and left to rot by the political elite in the South and London.  They have been ill served by Westminster and by the EU.  You say there is no need for insults then imply that people are stupid for voting out as they needed the cash from the EU so should have voted in. Are you saying that these people were so stupid that they have been duped and conned? I'm hearing an awful lot from remain voters around "conned", "duped", "stupid" etc. Is that just because they had a different view and voted differently to you? Remember please, these "stupid" people where in the majority, so are you saying you are a part of a lesser elite?

Come on now. Can we stop this bullshit, or, will you be happy that in 5 years time and things turn out OK I can come around and publicly ridicule you for being so naive and stupid for suggesting things would not be OK?  

None of us really know what the future holds, but we can only make sure it is successful if we come together in a  positive way to  make it successful. This negativity is getting really tiresome.

[franjipane]

You've read absolutely none of the articles that I've posted here have you Barry  

C8, if you want to come and publicly ridicule me in 5 years time on the official lotus forum for expressing my opinion, and yes of course it's my opinion and not a fact. Then go ahead, but what does that make you. And why would you want to anyway.

I've lived in a pretty ordinary part of London where I grew up, graduated from Uni and taught at a secondary school in a beat up area. I've lived in Birmingham where I taught some of the worse off kids in the country at inner city colleges, the last chance for kids before all to often giving up. Those places I worked received money from the EU.   lived in several other parts of the country too. I'm telling you this because if I didn't you would probably accuse me of bullshitting again, even though I shouldn't have to, if research published shows figures point to a trend then do I need to have lived in that area to make a valid comment on it?

YOUR negativity is getting tiresome.

[oilmagnet477]

Scotland to leave the UK?

Last time the referendum took place oil was $100 plus a barrel. Where is it now?

Scotland out of the UK and in the EU is a joke. Who would genuinely leave something they think they don't like for something with no future?

If the UK leaving the EU is a one way ticket, so is Scotland leaving the UK. What happens to Scotland if they leave the UK, join the EU and then the EU collapses? Good luck with that one Nicola - talk about committing political suicide - bad enough trying it once, never mind twice!

Cameron is coming in for flack for inflicting an unnecessary referendum on the UK - he had no choice and for once, having declared that he would give the voters the choice, he delivered. Once he won the General Election, he had no choice. The voters made this choice at the end of the day and we have to get on with it now.

The lack of Corbyn support during the campaign has largely caused this result, pure and simple.

[Barrykearley]

Afraid to say I have read every link that's been put on here. The misrepresentation by politicians and the media is somewhat distasteful. The model is simply broken. It's so close to a communist / Stalinist dictatorship that I'm suprised it's gone on as long as it has.  

the facts remain solid - we had a vote on membership of the eec in the 1970s. Roll on decades and it has morphed into something so very different I'm very unsure how it slip slided into what we currently have.

 

[franjipane]

Corbyn has been the only sensible person in this whole mess. But the media prefer to publish sensationalist rubbishy rather than put actual common sense and sound advice on front pages.

[C8RKH]

Lol. I guess the difference between us is that I do not go trawling the internet to find news stories and quotes and other stuff to support my point of view, I just say it as I see it and experience it. As I've said to you before. Stop quoting every body elses stuff, unless you know for a fact it is completely sound and unbiased - shock horror - 90% of what you get from the internet has been sponsored by one side or the other - so what you are failing to understand is I am not reading what you post as references as I just regard it as propaganda. I'd respect your point of view more if you used other people's materials less and used your own passion and points of view to convince me. But then, you've not been listening to that plea and just continue to post 3rd party stuff.

By the way, take a look at the BBC's home page just now. It is truly amazing. This morning and this afternoon it was ALL about the impact of Brexit of markets plunging, huge financial losses, pensions, share prices plummeting etc. As of now, none of these things, less than 12 hours later, make it on to the homepage apart form one small side bar on markets tumbling. I just find it hard to believe the "fear" and "doom" propaganda that you "remain" guys are pedalling. Anyway, I wish you well. The weather looks good tomorrow and I will be off the forum, much to everyone's delight, driving and spanking the arse of my Lotus before the petrol prices go up on Monday due to the fall in the pound against the dollar.

 

[Barrykearley]

Haha - Corbyn has been anti eu his whole political life. 

Im more the view he was toeing the party line - that's why he never got behind it - because he simply didn't believe in the EU. 

 

[C8RKH]

I'm sorry @franjipane but your last post about Corbyn, a man with a well documented disdain for the EU and a history of anti EU campaigning, actually exposes all too fully who has been well and truly conned and who really is stupid. I'm surprised you missed that history and track record when you were doing all you propaganda gathering on the web. Corbyn was positively delighted at the result this morning as could be seen by his interviews, in my opinion he could barely hide his glee, even though he was trying hard.

There, I feel much better now using the language of many "remain" campaigners and supporters.  Good night.

[franjipane]

C8, you are beginning to sound like a certain politician who doesn't like experts. You must really not like research, facts and figures that much if you would prefer others to not use them.

its not much good discussing anything on here if all you do is claim bullshit all the time, and tell people to stop looking up those damn figures. It's not like I'm quoting the daily bleedin Mail is it.

[Barrykearley]

Please just remember the facts and figures that were posted when we joined the exchange rate mechanism. 

Only time will tell now - I for one feel positive about democracy 

[franjipane]

And wow, there it is, I'm stupid now. Did I say Corbyn has always been pro EU? No. 

He's a euro sceptic, as am I. But like me he felt staying in the EU was the lesser of two evils.

Get a grip and stop calling people names.

[andydclements]

On one of the TV shows today (I think BBC) they had a group of pro-leave and pro-remain, judging by comments that same group had met before previous interviews, and now after the vote they were reasonable civil to each other and focusing on the point that the decision has been made so now is about mending any fences previously broken. If they can do it face -to-face and they've only interacted in the context of differing political views, then surely we can put aside our differing views on the result.

 

Hug and make-up time? Or, if not, then just time to walk away from the discussion.

[franjipane]

I'd hope so. But then I'm not sure if I've done anything to offend anybody. Let me know if you think otherwise but I've not been saying any of the things that people seem to have a problem with on Facebook or elsewhere, name calling, saying people are stupid idiots or are wrong.

I still think there are things to discuss but  this isn't the forum for it.

[Bibs]

8 hours ago, march said:

I will not actually be celebrating this the outcome as I believe it is not a victory but an outcome of a failed project that at it's inception had truly good and appropriate aims but was manipulated into an expansionist undemocratic state.

 

This times one billion. 

[ramjet]

I liked your PM's speech about standing down. Watch some of our politicians speak and it would curdle your morning breakfast milk.

[Chillidoggy]

Can someone just clarify where EU grants and funding come from, only I'm a bit unclear on that point.

Oh, and it looks like Comrade Corbyn's days are numbered if what I read is true. 

[Barrykearley]

@ian29gte Eu grants are distributed by the Eu unelected elite. Akin if you like to communist China. The money they hand out comes from revenues they raise by charging member states to be part of the club. Like any clubs - there is a cost of running them. Lobster and bollinger are not cheap - nor are mink lined slippers. 

The money the eu hand to us for using as they tell us to indeed does come from the uk taxpayer.

politicians really should stand strong and firm and get on with the job the electorate has asked them to do.

7 hours ago, franjipane said:

I'd hope so. But then I'm not sure if I've done anything to offend anybody. Let me know if you think otherwise but I've not been saying any of the things that people seem to have a problem with on Facebook or elsewhere, name calling, saying people are stupid idiots or are wrong.

I still think there are things to discuss but  this isn't the forum for it.

Not one bit chap - I've read so much information now. 

I'm a great believer in democracy - so for all the rights or wrongs here we are!!