Brexit

[Barrykearley]

Does not surprise me one bit. We are all sleepwalking through losing WWIII

[Andyww]

That kind of action is far better than rioting, which is mindless and destructive and what the French do.

It ends up with people such as the Police having to resist when they might well be on the same side.

[Barrykearley]

[C8RKH]

14 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

That skip looks full, you should get another in Barry and finish the garage clear out properly.

[JG220]

14 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Does not surprise me one bit. We are all sleepwalking through losing WWIII

Ffs (and I apologise for swearing, even in acronyms) it isn’t 1945, it’s 2019. They are our partners, our neighbours, in some cases our families. 

I think you should be ashamed of yourself for even posting such tripe and think you should take the opportunity to go and edit/ take back your post. (I’ll edit mine in turn)

Else I think you should think about whether or not you share the right values for this board. 

[JG220]

14 hours ago, Andyww said:

This is very interesting:

https://www.politicalite.com/brexit/brexit-bombshell-a-german-brexit-a-scandal-of-subversive-statecraft/?fbclid=IwAR1SMs-WCX3fx66LvmhFGpuSfI0aCxnXWACasDcWhIsEXyicX0bbOcTo16o

 

I think you can usefully discredit any reality of that article just by counting the number of exclamation marks. 🙄

[C8RKH]

@JG220 I think Barry has every right to express his opinions and last I looked the UK was a free country and censorship was not a way of life here - you should be ashamed of promoting censorship and preventing the right to freedom of speech in in my opinion. You need top think about whether or not you share the right values for this board.

 

 

[JG220]

Politicalite is a far-right website and not a very competent one at that

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/markdistefano/euronews-right-wing-website-videos

 

 

[JG220]

2 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

@JG220 I think Barry has every right to express his opinions and last I looked the UK was a free country and censorship was not a way of life here - you should be ashamed of promoting censorship and preventing the right to freedom of speech in in my opinion. You need top think about whether or not you share the right values for this board.

 

 

Yep, it’s a free country, but I thought on here at least we had a modicum of respect. 

Suggesting that we are at war with Europe is beyond the pale. 

In any case, aren’t you rather contradicting yourself if you defend Barry’s free speech and follow by a call for me to be silenced? 

[USAndretti42]

I agree that it's hardly World War 3.  It is a complete mess, though and I have no idea of what the best solution would be.

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, JG220 said:

Ffs (and I apologise for swearing, even in acronyms) it isn’t 1945, it’s 2019. They are our partners, our neighbours, in some cases our families. 

I think you should be ashamed of yourself for even posting such tripe and think you should take the opportunity to go and edit/ take back your post. (I’ll edit mine in turn)

Else I think you should think about whether or not you share the right values for this board. 

I’m afraid this is the typical left wing liberal response that’s all too often trotted out.

our own democracy is in real danger of being subverted. The propaganda during WWII is mild in comparison to the current situation. 

I would suggest you look at the underlying issues by which certain groups are trying to undermine a massive democratic vote. Millions of hero’s died for our very right to democracy and home rule.

sit back and reflect

[Neal H]

As soon as Mrs May gave parliament the option of voting down a no-deal Brexit, she removed any incentive that the EU may have had to give any concessions. She knew what she was doing. Her ‘deal’ will get heavily defeated (again) - just as she expects - and they’ll then vote to reject no-deal followed by the vote to postpone from 29th March, which takes us inevitably to a second referendum.

I don’t think it’s incompetence, neither the government or parliament has ever wanted to leave.

I won’t march or burn cars in protest, or withhold my Council Tax, I’ll just cast my protest vote at the next general election.

[scotty435]

1 hour ago, JG220 said:

Ffs (and I apologise for swearing, even in acronyms) it isn’t 1945, it’s 2019. They are our partners, our neighbours, in some cases our families. 

I think you should be ashamed of yourself for even posting such tripe and think you should take the opportunity to go and edit/ take back your post. (I’ll edit mine in turn)

Else I think you should think about whether or not you share the right values for this board. 

Well said James this thread is getting way out of hand, with some extreme views, i dread to think what the European friends on this Forum think of us.

[scotty435]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

@JG220 I think Barry has every right to express his opinions and last I looked the UK was a free country and censorship was not a way of life here - you should be ashamed of promoting censorship and preventing the right to freedom of speech in in my opinion. You need top think about whether or not you share the right values for this board.

 

 

We all appreciate free speech, but some people put there self opinionated views with dreadful bad manners that they think are funny and when someone disagrees with them use the get out of jail card it’s just a bit of humour, it’s worn a bit thin on your behalf now.

[pete]

54 minutes ago, Neal H said:

 

I won’t march or burn cars in protest, or withhold my Council Tax, I’ll just cast my protest vote at the next general election.

Certainly agree with that however not sure who deserves the protest vote as likely to be all the same people standing. We need a good clear out and some fresh faces on both sides

[JG220]

7 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

I’m afraid this is the typical left wing liberal response that’s all too often trotted out.

our own democracy is in real danger of being subverted. The propaganda during WWII is mild in comparison to the current situation. 

I would suggest you look at the underlying issues by which certain groups are trying to undermine a massive democratic vote. Millions of hero’s died for our very right to democracy and home rule.

sit back and reflect

Those are two completely different issues which I struggle to understand how you are conflating.

You say we are losing WW3, a conflict between us and Germany in response to a largely discredited far right and clearly BS website. Your response to me calling you out on it, is your umbrage at our INTERNAL democratic process. 

The only reason I continue to post and interact with you is that as Scott says, I want to show our international participants to this board that we don’t all share your views. 

 

[JG220]

7 hours ago, Neal H said:

As soon as Mrs May gave parliament the option of voting down a no-deal Brexit, she removed any incentive that the EU may have had to give any concessions. She knew what she was doing. Her ‘deal’ will get heavily defeated (again) - just as she expects - and they’ll then vote to reject no-deal followed by the vote to postpone from 29th March, which takes us inevitably to a second referendum.

I don’t think it’s incompetence, neither the government or parliament has ever wanted to leave.

I won’t march or burn cars in protest, or withhold my Council Tax, I’ll just cast my protest vote at the next general election.

Finally, we return to adult, respectful and less extreme views. 👍

I don’t believe in conspiracy. May never wanted the free vote, she fought it and fought it but was legally required to give it in the end. Had she avoided it, the deal would have been signed shortly after the Chequers meeting in July last year. 

The impass is a lack of any form of agreement in parliament. Whether or not that is a democratic issue depends upon you point of view, I happen to think it is an issue. On the other hand my perspective is that given that no plan existed at the time of the referendum then having an implementation referendum isn’t a bad solution (as it restores that democratic problem - by virtue of being democratic). The argument that a second vote is undemocratic is rather like trying to argue against the definition of democracy. 

In any case, we’ll reintegrate the EU within the next 20 years (without the perks). The younger generations will see to that. And indeed with 2m more young voters and 2m fewer older ones, a new referendum now (if there was one - which is far from clear) could see to that sooner. But that is democracy.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by JG220

[Neal H]

I don’t think a second referendum is the answer, I think it will prove even more divisive. It will probably produce a narrow result on a lower turnout and what will that prove? What makes you think parliament will respect the outcome any more than they respected the outcome of the first one if it’s another narrow leave result?

One thing we can all agree on is it’s a mess! In my opinion it’s a mess caused by parliament’s refusal to accept the democratic will of the electorate.

[C8RKH]

@JG220 and @scotty435 - frankly you are entitled to your opinions and to post here, I have never suggested otherwise in my own words. James, i did find your dig rather childish as I was only playing back your own words to you. 

Scotty, humour, or attempted humour,  during dark days is intwined with and in the British pysche. 

Barry I am sure was not talking about "war" in the physical sense, it was a metaphor for the battle that is going on right now. In the same way you talk about a class war, or a political war etc. If you actually look at the EU right now then there is a major political war going on between left and right and the speaches and verbage coming out from the leaders of Spain, Italy, France and Hungary are clearly indicative of darker times.  

Speaking of our European friends, I'd love to hear what they think about the reasonabless of the Spanish Governments behaviour towards Gibralter, her citizens and her sovereign terrirtory. Or from the Irish on their attempts to rip NI from the UK and the recent seizure of NI fishing boats and crew and their subsequent trial. What about Macron's statements and approach and his determination to punish the UK for leaving and whilst we are at lets not forget it was the French govt who betrayed us 3 times over joining the common market. What was the old saying, with Friends like these who needs enemies   I'm sure people reading this are mostly smart enough to realise that the anger is directed at the Politicians and not normal people who drive Lotus or any other types of cars 

I do find that there are a very small number of consistently the same individuals who seem to take pride in being the forums censorship board or equivalent of Mary Whitehouse. Well if you don't appreciate my attempt at humour at times to diffuse what is a frankly fraught situation then tough. Either don't read them or just move on. It's not hard to do and will reduce your stress levels.

I'll not comment any further on this.

 

[ChrisJ]

1 hour ago, JG220 said:

And indeed with 2m more young voters and 2m fewer older ones,

And over this period there are a lot more in between who have all become older - and much more informed about the EU

 

[Barrykearley]

You only need to turn on the news to see the disgusting way this is all panning out regarding politicians behaviours towards an open democracy. 

The old arguement about voter numbers is a liberal leftist distraction. The vote has been had. A democracy should enact that decision.

after that - I have absolutely no problem with another vote in a few years time - but you must implement the will of the people. Otherwise - frankly what is the point of even holding an election?

maybe North Korea hold the key to the secret

[LotusFella]

Wars are all political, economic and electronic now not with bullets. Too much money owed all over the place.  I think it’s safe to say we (or at least I do) love and respect our european people, my father was Italian and my grand father was in-turned.  It’s the political and economic elite we’re all getting frustrated with not implementing the will of the majority.

With frustration comes extremity, unfortunately.  

 

 

[LotusFella]

I like the idea of withholding council tax as a protest

[Barrykearley]

All that will do is suspend your entitlement to pay monthly and the entire year becomes due in one hit.

welcome to control

[LotusFella]

11 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

All that will do is suspend your entitlement to pay monthly and the entire year becomes due in one hit.

welcome to control

At that point I would take them to the ECJ. 😆😆😆😆 I’m sure they would give me a grant for that!