Citroen Gearbox Preventative Maintenance?

[Simon P]

Hi everyone

I'm new to the forum having bought my first Esprit - an '87 HCITurbo - right at the start of the pandemic. It's a low mileage car, that spent much of its life sitting still in collections - not what Chapman intended IMHO.

I've replaced all the obvious belts and hoses and she's running well enough to daily drive in rotation with my Plus 2. Reading the forum, I see the Citroen box is a significant weak point, and as I intend to use the car as much as possible, I wondered if there is any advice on preventing wear and damage to the box? A specific oil or additive?

Also are there any warning signs of failure like diff or bearing noises - or do they just explode without warning?

Lastly if the worst happens, can anyone recommend a gearbox rebuilder? I'm in Los Angeles, but would be willing to ship it if the best experience is in Europe?

Many thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more from all the experts here. Meantime here's a picture...

Best wishes

Simon

[Bibs]

Welcome Simon and congrats on a beautiful car. @dsvitesse1 has forgotten more about the Citroen box than the rest of the world knows, I'm sure he'll be able to offer some advice!

 

[CarBuff]

Most of us use Redline MT-90 GL4/GL5.   Per Harry above, overfill by 1/2 liter.

 

I had failed crownwheel carrier bearings cause a noise, that ended up costing a new ring & pinion 40,000 miles).😬

 

35K miles after that, the dreaded input shaft circlip failed. One squeak and 15 miles later it stripped the splines. 😪

 

There are folks experienced in Citroen trans rebuilding in California. Meanwhile, drive the car at least weekly to preserve the Bosch K-Jetronic injection system.

[Kevin Wheeler]

My input shift failed at about 90,000 miles with no warning as I was overtaking.

It appears to be quite a simple fix with no after effects. My mechanic tells me that they were never assembled far enough into the box in the first place. Since I am a total numpty with spanners I tend to believe whatever he tells me!

[Simon P]

Thanks all for the advice. Another Esprit owner here with the Citroen box needs it rebuilt. Can anyone recommend a California based shop for this?

Thanks again

 

[CarBuff]

could you narrow down which area of California? LA, like you?

Edited August 9, 2020 by CarBuff

[Simon P]

Hi

The car with the failed gearbox is in a workshop an hour north of LA. But anywhere in Southern CA would be ideal, or north as far as San Francisco. I was thinking he might have to send it to the Netherlands where the expertise seems to be. 

Thanks for helping out. 

Simon

[CarBuff]

First thing that comes to mind is LPBC (Lotus Prepared by Claudius)  in Cerritos.

https://lotuspbc.com/

There are also some shops that I know of farther north (bay area). Spencer's Motorsports is highly regarded.

 

 

Another strategy is to call JAE Parts in Goleta CA and ask Jay or Joe who has repeatedly ordered transmission repair parts.  JAE can provide you with a lot of Harry Marten's upgraded Citroen stuff, too.

http://www.jaeparts.com/contact/

 

[Simon P]

Great thanks Atwell. I will report back on how it goes for the benefit of other souther Cali Esprit owners.

[LOTUSMAN33]

I managed to buy a Citroen SM box as a spare not knowing the condition of mine, there’s a few differences like bell housing and mounts plus selector shaft.

I was very fortunate as it was rebuilt to go in a kit car and came with new calipers and discs albeit a little soiled from storage for years. 

I plan to rebuild it again as a spare for my S2 seeing if I can find a lotus bell housing first. 
Dave  

[dsvitesse1]

Hi, this not Citroen SM but Citroen DS 5 speed gearbox. Input shaft is 10 mm longer, short 1st and 5th gear. Do not forget to replace input shaft and if you find bell housing you have to measure carefully.  Bell housing and gearbox casing have matching numbers. After die cast, both were machined as a pair.

 

cheers,

 

Harry

 

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks Harry, the seller didn’t know as was planning to fit up with a Jaguar engine in his kit car, he thought it was an Esprit box. I told him it was Citroen due to the bellhousing but that’s where my knowledge ended 🙄

I may contact you when I find a bell housing for some advice?
Dave  

[dsvitesse1]

3 minutes ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Thanks Harry, the seller didn’t know as was planning to fit up with a Jaguar engine in his kit car, he thought it was an Esprit box. I told him it was Citroen due to the bellhousing but that’s where my knowledge ended 🙄

I may contact you when I find a bell housing for some advice?
Dave  

Off course:)

 

[CarBuff]

Harry,

 

Wasn't there a commercial vehicle that the 'box was used in? Are these a direct swap into the Esprit (not the bell housing) or do some changes need to be made?

 

[dsvitesse1]

HI

4 hours ago, CarBuff said:

Harry,

 

Wasn't there a commercial vehicle that the 'box was used in? Are these a direct swap into the Esprit (not the bell housing) or do some changes need to be made?

 

Correct, the later Turbo version had the C35 ( commercial van ) gearbox casing, but with Citroen SM ( Lotus Esprit ) internals and off course Lotus bell housing. Not a direct swap and also difficult to find.

 

The Citroen DS had some small differences for parts and ratios.

 

Ch

[PrecisionMike]

On 09/08/2020 at 08:08, Kevin Wheeler said:

My input shift failed at about 90,000 miles with no warning as I was overtaking.

It appears to be quite a simple fix with no after effects. My mechanic tells me that they were never assembled far enough into the box in the first place. Since I am a total numpty with spanners I tend to believe whatever he tells me!

Sounds to me as if you should get another mechanic. If the retention circlip is in place at assembly then its assemble properly.

If the nylatron washer is in place and not worn then the retention clip isnt even loaded. The crank thrust bearing reacts the constant spring preload.  As the nylatron washer wears, the input shaft moves forward into the crank, resulting in two things.....reduction of spline engagement with the clutch friction plate and metal to metal contact between the shoulder of the splines and the spigot bearing. A very nasty situation requiring a bulky wallet to rectify.

[Kevin Wheeler]

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing @PrecisionMike(refer to Numpty comment above).

The wallet was hit with a bill for 12 hours labour (£600) (2018) and £275 for an input shaft. Other bits and pieces (including clutch and VAT) brought the total bill to £1400. Is that bulky wallet territory?

I still trust my mechanic. He has a lot of experience with Lotus cars. The problem is probably my ignorance and not understanding one word of this thread!

[PrecisionMike]

1 hour ago, Kevin Wheeler said:

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing @PrecisionMike(refer to Numpty comment above).

The wallet was hit with a bill for 12 hours labour (£600) (2018) and £275 for an input shaft. Other bits and pieces (including clutch and VAT) brought the total bill to £1400. Is that bulky wallet territory?

I still trust my mechanic. He has a lot of experience with Lotus cars. The problem is probably my ignorance and not understanding one word of this thread!

Hi Kevin, I think there are no numpty comments here. All are valid and facilitate learning. I think we are talking of the same thing assuming your box is the citroen,  but may be the manner of failure  is different. I'm guessing yours broke and you lost drive? Anyway your bill sounds reasonable to me for the amount of work involved. 

My comments stem from a full dimensional analysis of the crank to gearbox interface on an early (1981 S2.2) in an attempt to understand why citroen sprung loaded the input shaft. It was a bit of an academic study I guess. 

I'm glad your car is sorted. I'm in the middle of a full gearbox rebuild at the moment due to horrible noises from it although it's perfectly functional!!

Good luck with it all..

[dsvitesse1]

Hi, best option imho is to replace the OEM cwp for the HML reversed, with perfect ratio, crownwheel and pinion set before you end up like this. There can be severe damage to other gears, casing and bellhousing.

 

Be carefull, be wise.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=6615107505188508&set=pcb.6615107901855135

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=6615107591855166&set=pcb.6615107901855135

 

cheers,

 

[Zig]

My brother who got 1984 and 1985 Esprits discovered that even stronger US MADE CWP gears are available on US eBay, and are a lot cheaper at $1,780.00  

One is listed now on ebay. See item 334947899790

 

Zig

Edited July 15, 2023 by Zig