Chinese Market AMG FE in Seneca Blue

[Eagle7]

Something else that's a possibility, since Chinese customers aren't getting a choice of engine or trans, they may be doing this to help smooth that over somewhat.  Geely may have requested this just for that reason.  We also don't know if the 360 hp that Lotus marketing keeps publishing, is what the actual hp will be once the cars get through homologation.  I'm guessing they're advertising low rather than high, but they're aiming higher.  It's better to under-promise and over-deliver than the other way around.  It could be that even Lotus doesn't know until it passes certification what they're actually going to have, so they're playing it safe for the time being.

[E1M2I3R4A]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

Lotus have made a big point about Emira being a world car, able to be sold in all target markets without significant regional specification variations.  A China-specific i4 therefore seems unlikely.

I’m told the tax in China is based on engine capacity rather than emissions and is something like 5% for i4 and 25% for V6.  This is being put forward as a reason for not offering the V6 in China.  But other countries with big tax differences are getting both engine choices.

This all seems inconsistent and a bit strange.

I’m hearing that due to massive order numbers for the Emira in China the V6 removal was negotiated in Glasgow in return for the weakened coal pledge. 

[simonb]

is anyone surprised that the likely evolution of the model may be First edition / standard edition / heritage paint edition / higher powered edition

That would be like every lotus car ever

[Nick in Sydney]

18 hours ago, Nimbus-in-Notts said:

If it turns out to be true, my V6 auto order will be cancelled as a same 400HP AMG with DCT has so much more potential and the V6 auto residuals would plummet.

I think the V6 auto is a slightly risky spec from a resale point of view.  Longer term, I could see the V6 manual being quite collectible but if people want an auto they will favour the DCT with AMG engine.

[C8RKH]

You might be right Nick, however, I will say that the V6 auto will be, based on the Evora, an awesome combination, capable of being a GT, a daily driver and a track toy... It could actually be the smart persons choice for a longer term ownership proposition.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Gotten a bit bored of heritage paint editions to be honest. They never look quite as good as they did on the original vehicles. I want the Emira to look forward, not back. Why not develop a whole new Lotus Motorsport colour scheme for the Emira GT4 and any other such racers? That Cyan Racing scheme looks lovely for example.

[steveoexige]

Interesting thread reading different concerns about the i4 Emira. As has been stated already the i4 is Lotus' global Emira, meeting emissions regs pretty much everywhere. Its the car they are putting the most development into and will quite literally be the last fossil fuelled engine in a Lotus.

Thats only half the story though, what hasn't been mentioned is that this will be the only engine they will offer in the subsequent Emira's due to increased power outputs, the most powerful being the full fat Cup version discussed for end of 2023. Lotus are sticking to their existing strategy of ever faster versions so I'd imagine there will be a stop gap Emira or 2 (ie 410, 430, etc) before the Cup car.

The V6 launch car is purely for marketing purposes, to broaden appeal and gain interest. It wont meet forthcoming emissions regs and is extremely expensive to tune beyond 460bhp (engine and transmission).  The i4 can be tuned beyond this with a remap and increased cooling and meet emissions.

I've asked my Hethel source about the launch edition i4 having 400bhp and so far ... nothing. I've had an answer to pretty much everything else new colours, technical specs, etc but radio silence about this. That could be telling 😀

[TomE]

I wouldn't describe the V6 as being only for marketing purposes.  So far over half the UK deposit holders who have been asked about 2nd deposits have chosen the V6 FE, and the other half are yet to decide between i4 FE and V6/i4 base.  The majority of the US 2022 requested allocations are for V6 FEs.  It will also be offered on the Base Edition from early 2023 onwards and is the engine in the Emira GT4.

Whilst it won't meet EU7 regulations, those haven't been ratified yet.  So earliest they will come into effect will be 2025/26.  Matt Windle said they'd carry on selling the V6 until it became non-compliant or demand fell away.  No doubt they'll do a 430 variant with carbon components in 2-3 years time before it gets killed off.  As the lighter and more powerful, very last manual V6 the Emira GT430 may be the really collectable version.

I'm sure Lotus will take the i4 version beyond 430/450 as the V6 is phased out.  They'll have to rely on AMG to make it EU7 compliant, which we can assume was part of the engine supply deal.

It's good to have the two options and there's clearly demand for both for at least the next 2 years.

[simonb]

11 hours ago, steveoexige said:

I've asked my Hethel source about the launch edition i4 having 400bhp and so far ... nothing. I've had an answer to pretty much everything else new colours, technical specs, etc but radio silence about this. That could be telling 😀

I would be very surprised to see a FE i4 with similar power to the v6, but a cheaper price point

I suspect there is an element of dithering to decide price point as well as power, and I assume a car loaded with options is far more profitable than a base model

[Evotion]

Yeah, If Lotus had sprung a heavier, less powerful car on us and it was ONLY the AMG 14 version it would have really upset us. The V6 is a good starting point. I still think it will end quicker than one might think and the i4 will be the only engine variant. Indeed, they might not actually bring out a V6 own-spec, well, don't don't count on one - things change.

[TomE]

They asked all the deposit holders to choose between V6 FE and waiting for i4 FE or base V6/i4.  Announcing later that there’s no base V6 would result in massive ill feeling and cancellations.

Matt Windle has already said the V6 will continue while there is demand and it’s compliant, and quashed rumours there was a quota on the V6. We have to assume he wouldn’t say that unless he had an agreement in place with Toyota. 

[alfapork]

On 12/11/2021 at 02:56, Eagle7 said:

If you guys haven't seen it, here's a link to a 3rd complete car in China, with a lot of really good photos of the interior. It's a left-hand drive 2.0.

 

Didn't realise they had BBC 6 Music in China...

[Nimbus-in-Notts]

On 18/11/2021 at 00:46, TomE said:

I wouldn't describe the V6 as being only for marketing purposes.  So far over half the UK deposit holders who have been asked about 2nd deposits have chosen the V6 FE, and the other half are yet to decide between i4 FE and V6/i4 base.  The majority of the US 2022 requested allocations are for V6 FEs.  It will also be offered on the Base Edition from early 2023 onwards and is the engine in the Emira GT4

I think there are two main reasons so many have gone with the V6 in the UK.

1. It’s Lotus Fanbase central with most loving V6 manuals.

2. An awful lot of new Lotus buyers have been “forced” down the V6 route by the low power of the i4 unit, allegedly (de)tuned to suit Lotus’ required characteristics. An awful lot would prefer the AMG/DCT with 400 HP. 
 

Im afraid the “tuned’ by Lotus to 360HP doesn’t wash any more if the Chinese can have it with 400HP. I’ll pay the extra for the proper AMG power please.

Lotus need to get their sh*t together and start being more transparent. We still don’t have an i4 FE price. I wonder why……….

[DaveC72]

Is it just me that's sat here wondering if we might have a 2+2=5 situation here.

Translations of Chinese are notoriously "loose".  It actually reads more to me that they are talking about the first model being available, by which they mean the V6.  Not the first i4 (in China) having 400hp.  

I do, of course, stand ready with a knife and fork and my hat on a plate :D

 

[Del Lardo]

From another forum where the translation was posted as 

 

Quote

Chinese market model will come with AMG sourced 2.0T engine, with 360HP and 430NM torque. Combined with 8 speed DCT transmission, 0-100km/h acceleration times will be 4.5s. Initial released First Edition will output a higher 400HP and 480NM torque. Acceleration will be reduced to 4.3s. Interestingly, the latter has a maximum horse power that is nearly the same as the 3.5L V6 supercharged version, and the torque is even 50NM higher, although I still want V6+manual...."

 

the comment from a native Chinese speaker was

Quote

very accurate translation, I couldn't do better 

 

[DaveC72]

Pass the Ketchup, this hat is tasteless...

[freefall_junkie]

So, what chance the i4 FE will have 400hp and 480nm in the UK? Have Lotus ever said definitively that the UK i4FE would have only 360hp? Personally I would still want the V6 for the noise and manual box, but I suspect quite a few people with their name down for a V6 would think twice if a 400hp i4 FE was coming. 

[Del Lardo]

Lotus have clearly stated that the i4 will be 360bhp. 

There's an image from someone who has seen the Chinese show car saying that the FE will have 400bhp.

 

Everything else is just guesses and supposition.  

[Evotion]

As per my comment on the 'possibility' that there will not even be a V6 own spec a lot of this comes down to Lotus not actually knowing what they will do and is it therefore still fluid. Some things are locked in and unchangeable but others are not. 

They could still make the V6 more powerful, before delivery, if they feel they then need to due to market conditions and competing cars' upgrades.

There are many things not written in stone. On some things Lotus have been very vague and we already know they have changed their mind on a couple of fundamental things.

Until I have the car beneath me I am not counting on anything.

I am already half expecting that I wont get the car until the summer and it might have changes not yet mentioned.

[Evotion]

Re: the China HP increase.

I assume they have less stringent CO2 regs than the UK which is why we have 368HP and they are nudging 400 (if true).  Then again, they are saying that non-FE versions will be back to the lower figure so that makes no sense.

In which case why doesn't Lotus UK make it 400 for the FE and then drop it back for the mass sales - maybe it will - as I said, these things are not locked in yet, not really.

Of course, if they did announce this then they would lose a chunk of V6 orders to the I4.

Would Lotus flog us all of the V6 units and then release the i4 FE with 400HP? The way things have gone this cannot be ruled out even if a senior Lotus person says otherwise. 

[Del Lardo]

Hot off the press!!!!

 

Quote

英國的 Emira i4 FE 將擁有 500bhp 的動力，並以獨角獸的眼淚為動力

 

 

 

[Evotion]

Ha. Yep, until we have them in hand, anything and everything is possible.

[simonb]

36 minutes ago, Evotion said:

Re: the China HP increase.

I assume they have less stringent CO2 regs than the UK which is why we have 368HP and they are nudging 400 (if true).  Then again, they are saying that non-FE versions will be back to the lower figure so that makes no sense.

In which case why doesn't Lotus UK make it 400 for the FE and then drop it back for the mass sales - maybe it will - as I said, these things are not locked in yet, not really.

Of course, if they did announce this then they would lose a chunk of V6 orders to the I4.

Would Lotus flog us all of the V6 units and then release the i4 FE with 400HP? The way things have gone this cannot be ruled out even if a senior Lotus person says otherwise. 

we also have the AMG a45s (as well as AMG a45) in this country

[JimH]

Go here in Chrome and let Google translate to English - this is now public for the mainland China specification 1st Edition i4.... 😉

https://www.lotuscars.com.cn/carConfig

 

[DaveC72]

Well. That's gonna cause some excited conversations!  I'll have one of those, please!