New law passed in Denmark regarding cars and motorcycles, incl. classic models.

[Jacques]

As I have been informed, Danish law is by 1'st of March now so, that my car is illegal, as it makes too much noise, even though it passed it's regulations, as the law has now been changed for older cars. Therefore to get rid of all these cars and motorcycles which are now illegal to drive, but legal to own on private property, without license plates of course, as they cannot pass any inspection now, are getting confiscated immediately by the police in big hit squads all over the country. Since 1' of March between 600 and 1000 cars and mc's in just central part of Jylland, have been confiscated by the police in Denmark, and you either get the choice of freely giving over your car or motorcycle to the police for ever, thereby saying goodbye and loosing all of it's value, or having it towed, inspected by the importer of what ever brand it is, and if no one is there, it's getting either crushed or sold to whoever wants to buy it (for exhibition), or having it 100% turned legal at your own cost but by the system mentioned, plus a court case and a heavy fine. Big money here, typically over 12000 usd or way more, as there have been examples of.

 

Since this law passed, there are none, I repeat none classic cars and motorcycles on the streets any more, apart from those who didn't hear about it yet.

It takes place in such a way that a huge force of police are encircling a group of cars say at a harbor exhibition or similar, and they are held back by force, not allowed to leave freely, until the inspection is done. The inspection itself is done by police and special educated inspectors who then perform the inspection on site. If they either can see something that is now illegal, or have a suspicion thereof, the owner or driver will have a piece of paper given to them (without an official certification number on the paper), on which it is stated the above mentioned choice. The driver or owner have to decide on the spot and this is then performed.

For example there are newly passed levels for conformity, such as ec numbers imprinted on parts, e.g. a cat, or E11 number stated on parts, new level of less noise accepted etc.

As for the tests, there are now one former chiptuner in Denmark, who is now appointed to inspect software installed in engine management chips, and this alone cost around 2000 usd, plus they are specifically instructed to drill a hole through the complete controlling box, order a new one from factory if possible and install that. This of course is not possible on many older cars. I have spoken to someone close to those who educate the special selected policemen and testers, and it seems to be correct.

 

One this is the installation of streamers on wind shields, dark film on windows, headlights, extreme tuning, extreme noise etc, another is the levels of noise and co, co2 etc, being in effect now, effectively making it extremely hard to pass any classic car or motorcycle. For example, it is no more enough to have the original parts on the vehicle, as these would often be louder or more smoking, than the new law allows.

Likewise, there are many parts that were produced before say 1' of October 1990 (date of first smog law limit going into effect), that does not have any EC conformity, simply because it was not a requirement at the time, these being now illegal, which leads to confiscation of the car or motorcycle.

 

There are hundreds of court cased being prepared as we speak, which because of covid19, can be expected to be delayed fort a very long period of time.

The Danish organisation of motor owners FDM, have been very silent about this, not stating anything official as of yet, as they initially voted yes for the pretext version of the new laws before being passed.

 

Stay tuned for the development on this.

 

Kind regards.

[NG5]

Sounds  terrible 😱

Does this only apply to Denmark registered cars or if there are on street checks does it apply to visitors also? 

[Escape]

Sounds like field case for any lawyer worth even a fraction of his pay!

[ramjet]

That all sounds a bit dictatorial.

[ChrisJ]

Is it only "modified" classic cars, so if the car is still original specifications is it legal?

Is it something like last year's consultation here in the UK "Modernising Vehicle Standards" that had concerns for motorsport and the classic car world. There's a debate in parliament due on 25 April in reponse to a petition about it 

 

[Jacques]

Cheers guys, I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge right now.

 

So, it is for all cars ad mc's, including classic and oldtimer.

It is also for all because the old rules of more noise allowed is moved down to lower limits.

Likewise for exhaust smog.

It is not only modified classic cars. All cars and mc's.

So far I've heard that a few cars from Sweden was confiscated because of this. It has not been confirmed so far. It might have been a case of "madness driving" which also is a new law, passed last Summer 2021. If a policeman tracks you speeding 100% above on freeway, bye-bye car. Likewise with a lower limit inside towns or on countryside highways.

Yes, it's very dictatorial.

And yes, it's a very clear case for a bright lawyer.

Today was the first shiny blue sky for a long time, Sun was out smiling and it was 12-15 degrees cel. Normally, there would have been a swarm of classic cars etc. out on the roads. Today: near none.

I'll get back as I retrieve more info.

Meanwhile: my Esprit is sleeping again.

Cheers,

Jacques

[rudolphwolven]

*****

Hi Jacques,

I have searched the internet extensively about the alarming situation in Danmark as for instance by:

- "classic cars not allowed any more in Danmark"....

- "confiscation of classic cars in Danmark etc."....

- "New law passed in Denmark regarding cars and motorcycles, incl. classic models."

I did find nothing that indicates police actions in this heavy way as described in your post.

I could only find reports about confiscating of bikes and cars due to insane speeds / reckless driving etc. as per link below: 

https://www.femamotorcycling.eu/roadside-inspections-denmark/

Are you sure that you can not drive your 1990 Esprit Turbo SE any more?

I heavily doubt it .....unless it is modified / tuned.

[Jacques]

I'll try to answer to the best of my ability as of now.

The thing about reckless driving is a whole other ballgame and is outside this news/debate. Yes, it's true that there is very little about it right now, but I can for example refer to some video postings on flutube made by "High on cars" (in Danish). They discuss that problems there.

One of the central points now is the limits for smog and noise have been lowered so that the cars and mc's which were legal before because of higher limits being old before such and such a date, cannot pass them.

For example there are a lot of US old cars in Denmark, which is being driven only during Summer and on good shiny days. Apart from many of them having other bigger more powerful engines etc. the have a very hard time passing the new rules when being measured by the inspection and police in road side razzias, which are the ones we now see.

There are some expectations as to the police and inspectors relaxing down again, but this is not certain. Another way is to take it to court. There are now money collections to help funding court cases against the state as a matter of principle.

In general it can be said that these "new" laws are not new as such, but went into effect by 1'st of March 2022. They were passed some years ago as a compromise to the EC demanding annual or bi-annual inspection to motorcycles in Denmark (al of EC), and in which Denmark said "no, that is not needed, as drivers take very good care of their bikes". Then there came a debate of noise and smog, and Denmark wanted to get lower limits than the rest of the EC, and at a time Germany told Denmark to "just leave the EC". Germany later that day gave an apology to Denmark. The compromise was that we could have stricter laws on smog and noise and loose the inspection of bikes, but by 1'st of March 2022, start doing severe road side inspections as explained. For example, the police fill a whole big parking lot with their people and equipment, and stop every single car and mc getting near the area. Inspect them and confiscate if anything is wrong/illegal etc. even on suspicion. Before 1'st of March 2022, you would get an order of driving home and repair or correct anything they found, and eventually show up at an inspection MOT facility to have it passed. Not so now.

There are a number of problems in this case. For example there is no official number printed on the message of choice you will receive. That is probably illegal, so the police and inspectors handing these out, are probably doing something illegal, therefore leaving it up to a court to decide later on. This will take a lot of time to look into, as courts have many hundreds of cases waiting because of the last two years of covid, thereby dragging this into the future. As soon as I hear about any decision on this, I'll post it here.

Denmark does not have any single special approval of a vehicle such as for example Sweden does. We are too small a nation, and does not have a national inspection/tech institute, so we refer to EC and German TUV papers etc. Therefore for example the Nitron suspension kit that we all know by now, is illegal in Denmark, despite Nitron making an official paper stating this was made special for this car and so on. Not a problem in the EC, except in Denmark. Matters can be done to some extent, but as I wrote here, it's not a practical approach in reality. I read the test procedures, and it's pretty extreme. Some years ago, there was even a Danish demand of a test example of a car with such parts on it, demanding to make a crash test, thereby crushing the car. If it passed, then you could drive with the surviving 2'nd example. But you also have to pay a new registration tax - 180% of the cars price. As you may know, the extreme 180% tax in Denmark on cars and mc's are lifted a bit for electric cars and small new mini cars. But not for old cars such as for example a Lotus Esprit. So I paid nearly the same in registration tax, as I paid for my whole Esprit, thereby doubling it's cost. If you then want to say install a Nitron kit, there is a new reg. tax again. That will be an evaluation of the car itself as well as other sister or brother models, such as for example the Sport300 or V8, which was more expensive than mine, making the potential tax higher, as well as combined with a Danish evaluation of what the car is worth in sale here and now, on the national market and the international market (without tax).

Btw, I spent several hours a few days ago reading the newest laws imposed, directly from "retsinformation" which is the publication of laws to the public, with regards to tuning, smog, rebuilding, noise, changes etc. They are very strict and even though there are ways to do some, it's mostly contradicted by other laws, in effect making it very hard to pass anything, even original cars and mc's. My own Laverda is an example, which was made being somewhat loud. It can easily be driven being damped and not noisy, which I do, but now, the old limits for noise also rules over this mc, so despite being original, I cannot any more pass inspection and thereby also road side razzias. As you know, there are very specific designs to parts and their function and for example using or making up parts that does limit noise on this bike, is unfortunately illegal, as they do not contain a relatively newly decided EC conformity number. By then, you will have to have the bike towed to the other end of Denmark, and paying an inspection company a (large) sum of money to perform tests (in Germany), as well as engineers to test the design and strength of said parts. And by the time this may succeed, you will have paid more than it is worth and choked the engine completely, making it not able to drive. In reality, it is not realistic.

I am still looking into ways of having my car legalized to the new rules. It may take a few years to complete.

I'll be back asap with more info as I find out.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[drdoom]

This is dreadful news which represents utter legislative madness. There simply cannot be non-conforming cars in numbers sufficient to warrant this sort of Draconian overreach. Denmark is by no means a crowded country overall, with loads of open spaces windswept with fresh sea air. Mass delusion once again, one of several psychological pandemics running concurrent to Covid itself.

[ramjet]

I can't believe that it is legally possible to do something like this so drastically.

[Jacques]

I'm afraid it is. The law was passed a few years ago as mentioned, but came into effect now.

Yes, pure madness.

Kind regards,

Jacques

ps: if anyone have a standard very silenced left hand driven cars exhaust mufler for a Esprit Turbo SE, please give me a pm. Or an idea thereof.

Or if someone knows how to cut open my mufler and make it far more silent.

[ramjet]

I can imagine that some exhaust places in Denmark are going to make an absolute killing.

Making it super quiet without seriously hindering the car's performance? Who knows?

[ChrisJ]

@Jacques - if the exhaust is standard, then you won't have any problems?

 

[Jacques]

Nope, it's a mufler from Quicksilver Systems, the version with a silencer, not the straight through. And since I also have an Alunox exhaust manifold and a sportscat, it is a bit on the loud side. It sound very potent, not extremely loud. New rule says 74 db and since my car is older 1990, it is allowed a little bitmore noise, +3db as it'sa used car, not factory new. Hopefully I'll pass the test next week, or I may have to open up that one small silencer, and modify it internally. I just spoke to Quicksilver, and they don't have any db measuring for my car and system. Anyway, they told me straight to modify my mufler if need be, instead of the original back silencer.

I'll get back with more when I know more.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[ChrisJ]

77db but at what revs and where are they measuring from?

When I had my car measured on a track day it was at 5000rpm and about 1m away from the exhaust. Mine was around 90 ish - everything standard. Engine noise also part of the equation for this as was near the meter.

There are plenty of sound measuring apps that can give you an idea of what to expect - don't know how good they are though.

[Jacques]

All right, so to be a little on the precautious side, I've been to a MOT tester, and had the Esprit measured for noise according to present day laws, setup for testing etc. It was 81,6 db including an Alunox exhaust manifold, modern cat and the Quicksilver exhaust system. So under the limit of my car with 84db plus 3db as it's a used car. Phew.

As I've heard today, there has been a little exaggeration on both sides, the law enforcement as well as the owners, so for now, it's a stand still.

More later as I find out.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[pete]

So not 74db mentioned earlier

[Jacques]

Yes, but no, as this number would apply to cars just a few years younger, but no, not mine apparently.

So I drove the crap out of it - ehrm, took a nice little slow tour around the island. I was being told yesterday by an authority on the subject, that there will be new rules passed this Summer, to more precisely specify these subjects. Can't be more specific as of now. We'll see.

Cheers.