A tale of 2 +2S's

[Escape]

A very nice sight in the workshop today: 2 Elan +2S's side by side. Both '73 130/5.

The blue one is from a customer, a barnfind that had been standing for 20 years and is now being used very regularly. About 1000miles in 3 months, with an occasional visit to deal with a few issues, as to be expected. I got to drive that car a couple of times and enjoyed it so much I decided to bump my own Elan JPS up on the (long) list of projects. Yesterday evening a mate gave me a hand to unbolt the engine and gearbox, today we took them out. Ready for a rebuild.

The gearbox lost first on the day I collected the car, so needs to be opened up.
The engine lost power while on route to Brooklands, and wouldn't even start to get me off the ferry back... Apart from low compression on cylinder 4 we can't find anything obviously wrong, so that will be a challenge.

I'll update this topic with our findings and will add some more info about what has already been done to the blue one.

Filip

[jep]

Lotus have made two of the prettiest +2 automobiles ever, Elan and Evora. Wedge E's not far behind.

Justin 

[Escape]

Some progress made: engine and box are now stripped, some problems identified.

- the selector fork for 1st and 2nd seems oddly worn, the fingers no longer grip the synchroniser which explains why I couldn't select 1st. For 2nd the fork pushes on the gear on the ring, just enough to engage.

- broken piston ring on cilinder 4, which had the lowest compression. Big ends seem fine (but will be replaced of course), the cilinders show very little scoring so a light hone should suffice. Standard size rings should do I think. Or I could go for one size up as they will be gapped as necessary anyway.

Anything else I should check while I'm in there? I'm not convinced the loss of power and eventual failure to start can be explained by low compression on one cilinder and lowish on other one, but there's not much I can try now...

A few shots of the removal my mate send me, suprisingly easy with the crane on the forklift:

And the engine in pieces on the stand:

Next step is ordering all the parts (that will only hurt my wallet a bit) and cleaning everything (not looking forward to that...) and hopefully in a few weeks I can start reassembly.

[jonwat]

2 hours ago, Escape said:

Anything else I should check while I'm in there?

Obviously make sure the water pump bearing is 100%, you don't want to be taking the head & front cover off again in a few thousand miles because it's failed. 

As for the non starting, as long as she's got fuel, air & a spark she'll run. 

[Escape]

Yeah, I'll give the water pump a thorough check. Not the best design when it comes to maintenance!

As for fuel, air & spark, I know that's all she needs, but she didn't seem to agree...

[jonwat]

I'd also gas flow the inlet ports, removing any step between the ports & the spacer that holds the rubber O rings. I followed Vizard's "Tuning twin cam Fords" on my Europa Special head which made a big improvement to performance 

[Escape]

I don't doubt there are gains to be had, but I want to keep this rebuild as simple as possible. Especially because of time restraints as I have plenty of other projects waiting. I guess I could send the head to be properly looked at and gas flowed, but that will not only take time, I also don't know anyone local(ish) that I'd trust with the job. I will have a good look tonight though, to see if there are easy gains to be had. I've had good results porting the heads and intakes on a Rover V8 myself with a Dremel.

[Escape]

In between overhauling a mate's Range Rover for his trip to Sweden, I've done some cleaning and have been building my parts list. The pistons cleaned up easily, much to my surprise. But once clean I got an even bigger surprise: pistons 1, 3 and 4 are clearly marked 'front' and '+.020', so first oversize. But piston 2 only has 'front'. The bores are all the same diameter and not oval (as far I can determine with simple measuring tools). I haven't measured the pistons yet, it was around midnight when I got them clean. Either way it seems very strange only 3 cilinders were bored and/or the pistons replaced...

I know the best way would be to have the whole block done properly, but as above I want to keep this a simple and quick(ish) rebuild. I'm not looking for ultimate performance, I just want to be able to use and enjoy the Elan again.

Someone did suggest I have a suitable replacement engine on the shelve, but he's mad (in a good way). It would be quite a challenge to try and fit another bank of 4 cilinders to an Elan. 😁 Not to mention a JPS should be kept original.   

[Escape]

All the parts arrived last week, but I've not really made progress.

With "All the 72s" not being open for the public I've changed my travel plans and will be going off roading instead. So more work on Land Rovers (and no doubt I'll return with a new to do list).

In a few weeks, when my mate has some time, we'll start putting the engine back together. And I'll post some more updates.

[Escape]

Unexpectedly, progress was made sooner rather than later.

The evening before setting of for Wales with the Land Rover Lightweight, the friend I mentioned earlier popped by, kindly asking if I needed a hand getting ready. As I had everything covered, apart from my own travel bag, the night could have ended with just banter and beer. But he was anxious to pick up the spanners, having just got back from a city trip with SWMBO. So we started on the twin cam: cylinders were honed, pistons cleaned, rings gapped and the bottom assembly put back together.

And then some nice beers were shared. 🙂 I didn't get much sleep before setting off, but was very happy with the progress. And I didn't need to drive the first stretch, so no real problem.

While in Wales I picked up the worn selector fork for the gearbox. Last week I some time to look at the gearbox, because the Workshop was being used for bodywork and I am pretty useless at that. More cleaning and yesterday for the first time since buying my Elan I could select first gear!
While figuring out how to install the clutch release mechanism (most complex design I've ever come across!), I did find out I'm missing the spring holding the clutch fork to the pivot. Not sure if I've misplaced it (always a risk when projects drag on and you're working on different things) or if it was never fitted. But I'm guessing it's useful and if I want to install it, I need to do it now. I'll have a look later today, if I can't find it I'll order a new one. I need some other parts anyway.

She wont be running any time soon, but things are coming together. Next big step is refitting the head and timing, than mate the gearbox back to the engine and install the lot. And hope it will start and run... I'd like to take the Elan to Brooklands for the New Years Day Gathering.

Filip

[Escape]

Progress is slow but steady, the engine has been assembled again. We did struggle to get the timing right, tried a few different options (one tooth difference) before settling on what seemed like the closest one. It was my first time doing a twincam chain, seems less exact as the belt on the 9## engines.

Then, earlier this week, I found myself with a few hours to spare in the Workshop. Well, not really spare, as there's loads of work waiting, but I wanted to see some progress and do something for a car of my own. 🙂 So I got creative with the 2-poster (instead of getting the forklift from the other hangar), took the engine from the stand to fit the flywheel and clutch and then offered up the gearbox. That went surprisingly easy! I'll try and get the car on the lift next time Wouter comes over, so we can reinstall it. Shouldn't be too long now, she should run again this year. I might even try making it to Brooklands again on January 1st. 😎

As for the other Elan +2, that has racked up 3000 kms since being back on the road early April. Well done! She was running a bit rough and holding back at high rpm and load, so we had another look at the carbs. Started from fresh: float levels, balancing and adjusting CO to get the best idle. We also went over the ignition system again, but apart from a slightly chafed wire nothing seemed off. Feddling with the carbs did the trick it seems, she's happily purring along from idle all the way up to 6000 rpm, with a very happy owner. The testdrives did wonders for my own motivation as well.

Filip

[Arregueti]

I am admirative and jealous in equal measure when I see your setup and progress. Keep the updates coming!

[Escape]

Progress is slow, nothing to be jealous about. 😉

But it's nice to see things coming together (after being off the road for so long) and I will keep the updates coming. Hard to resist the photo opp with the 2 other Lotus in the background.

Next year I want to use the Elan for classic car runs and meets again.

Filip

[Escape]

She lives!

We had the engine and gearbox in a couple of weeks ago, and then other stuff came up. This week we set out to finish things, and tonight was the big night. She didn't fire without some drama though! First we started hearing strange and very disturbing sounds from the bellhousing. Turned out one of the starter bolts had stripped the threads in the bellhousing, allowing the starter to shift just a bit and that cause the gears to grind. Phew, easily fixed and most importantly, nothing internal in the engine!
To actually get her to fire I needed to tweak the ignition timing a couple of times, and then she sprung to live! Idle is way too high, but I know I still need to fit new seals between the carbs and the head (lost in the post it seems). She does sound healthy and eager, and at revs the engine sits perfectly stable. First the seals, then trying to fine tune everything. And finish up a lot of bits and bobs, like refitting the bonnet.

Nice way to end the year. And a huge thanks to my pal Wouter!

[Escape]

It's been over 2 months, unfortunately little progress. Not for lack of effort though.

We replaced the seals and spacers between the head and carbs when they finally arrived. Managed to get the idle down, but that revealed a serious imbalance. Turns out cilinders 1 and 2 aren't doing much, certainly not at idle. You can pull the plug leads off and the engine just carries on with no discernible change! My first thought was blocked idle passages in the carb. Meticulous cleaning didn't improve things, nor did playing around with the idle mixture settings. Float heights had been set and rechecked, both bowls confirmed to have the same level.

Yesterday I once again tried to get to the bottom and get her running for the coming season.

- compression test showed ca 13 bar (190 psi) on all cilinders
- swapping the carbs didn't have any effect. So what looked like a carburetor problem, affecting 2 cilinders, seems to have a different cause
- I hooked up my balancing set, with the 4 manometers. Much to my surprise, cilinders 1 and 2 show very good vacuum and respond to the idle screws. Cilinders 3 and 4 have very poor vacuum, but still those are the ones that are actually running. I did this check before and after swapping the front and rear carb, no difference in the readings.

I don't get it. Especially the last part. How can the cilinders with good vacuum, good spark (plugs have of course been changed and spark verified with an inline tester) and a proven carb do nothing, while the ones that seem to be getting little air are running good enough to keep the entire engine running consistently? An air leak could explain the low readings, but would also mean the mixture is very lean. Apart from starting I do not need to use the choke, so mixture does seem OK. the compression readings seem to rule out a mechanical problem after the rebuild. And valve or ignition timing should affect all 4 cilinders, not just 1 and 2.

I can't help but wonder if we've missed something and that was the cause of the original problem. And that after the rebuild the engine is just that bit better to be able to overcome it again.

Yes, I know I might get more response on Elan central, but I have faith in the accumulated knowledge on TLF, so want to see if we can figure it out here first. 😉

One more thing to add, a friend had a similar problem with his Alfa Romeo Giulia, with the rear carb apparently doing nothing. He had the carbs (Weber I think) cleaned and rebuilt, but that didn't solve things so he's now putting in another engine. I do not want to go that road! Especially as we're quite confident the base engine is good. 

Filip

[jonwat]

6 hours ago, Escape said:

cilinders 1 and 2 show very good vacuum and respond to the idle screws. Cilinders 3 and 4 have very poor vacuum, but still those are the ones that are actually running. I did this check before and after swapping the front and rear carb, no difference in the readings.

So 1 & 2 are pulling a high vacuum, what do you mean "respond to the idle screws"? A Colortune will allow you to see if they're firing in there.

Cilinders 3 and 4 have very low vacuum & it's idleing on those two cylinders only which makes me think the carbs aren't balanced but presumably your manometer showed they were?

Did you do the compression tests on a cold engine? If so the tappets could be too tight so you're losing compression when she warms up.

 

 

[Steve V8]

I believe a non interference engine (if that's what the Elan has) will run on 2 cyls if the valve timing is 360degs out. I may be trying to teach my granny to suck eggs, but is that possible?

[Escape]

Thanks for the input!

The compression tests were done on a coldish engine. I do not want to run it on 2 cilinders for too long. We did check valve clearance during the rebuild, but also on a cold engine of course.

I don't have a colortune. I should probably get one, it will come in handy often enough.

My carbs do not have the idle bypass screws (to balance both barrels on a carb), I mean the idle mixture screws. When I adjust those, the vacuum reading on 1 & 2 changes as expected, as more mixture can make it past the butterflies. Not so on 3 & 4, but vacuum is so low (barely registering) it is hard to see small changes. So it's definitely not balanced, and the difference is way too big to even out by adjusting the linkage between the 2 carbs.

I'll be looking at timing again today. As it's the only thing we can think of. And I have spare set of plug leads I can swap in as well. I would think if the timing was that far out, I'd get plenty of backfires. Which is not the case, none when starting or idling, just a few pops when I blip the throttle.

What puzzles me the most is how the 2 rear cilinders can run seemingly fine without registering much vacuum. I'll write down the readings later tonight, so you have some numbers to go by.

Filip

[jonwat]

2 hours ago, Escape said:

What puzzles me the most is how the 2 rear cilinders can run seemingly fine without registering much vacuum

That's because the butterflies are well open & the air can flow in easily, the closed butterflies on the other two cylinders, pulling a high vacuum, are what is holding her back.

I would say you starting point is to find out why those carbs won't balance.

It is an interference engine.

Good luck 👍 

[Escape]

I couldn't bring myself to write an update after tinkering on Thursday evening. I feel like I'm in over my head and just can't make sense of my findings...

I followed the advice and concentrated on trying to get the carbs balanced first. I verified all 4 butterflies are properly closed with an endoscope. The linkage between both carbs was set so they would open the same. Then the stop screw turned in a bit to allow some flow. All idle mixture screws one turn out, as per the manual.
She started up nicely and kept a steadyish idle, but still very rough, so likely on 2 cilinders. The vacuum readings were different though: before I got around 5" on 3 and 4, but around 20" on 1 and 2. Now all were around 10" and I could get them synchronised pretty good. On a hunch I pulled the plug leads in turn, to see if it made much difference. Much to my surprise, disconnecting 1 or 2 led to an immediate drop in revs, but 3 or 4 made little difference. So the exact opposite as before.

I also rechecked the static timing (which was about 10° BTDC at 1000rpm) and played around a bit. That helped smooth the idle but if I went too far the revs would rise, up to 2000rpm despite closed throttle. So maybe still an air leak somewhere, or rather everywhere, as the synchronisation remained pretty good. And she appears to be running rich instead of lean as I would expect for a post-carb air leak. I also noticed backfires in the inlet when I disconnected the vacuum feed to the booster (to rule that out) and capped off the connection. Lean mixture and/or late ignition timing?

[jonwat]

2 hours ago, Escape said:

Lean mixture and/or late ignition timing?

I appreciate you don't have one but a Colortune allows you to see the colour of the flame as it burns or see just the spark if the mixture is too weak to burn & there is no flame, just the spark, if there is one.

What about the distributor, are you sure the bob weights that advance the ignition as the revs rise are free to move? If the engine hasn't run in a long while they can seize up.

Are you sure the carb & manifold flanges & spacers are good & flat, not letting in air. Also the rubber O rings are in good order? Check the lead plugs that seal the drillings on the carb flanges have not been pushed in too far by some muppet over tightening the securing nuts.

Here's a link to Des Hamill's book on tuning Weber & Dell Orto carbs which may help.

At least you appear to be making progress, good luck. 

[Steve V8]

This may be of interest; re cam timing first then move crank to advance mark before fitting the distributor, unusual procedure. 

https://lotusmarques.com/info/technical/36-lotus-europa/163-tc-distributor-and-plug-lead-orientation

[Escape]

Finally some good news, she runs on all four!

One of my long time car-wrenching buddies came over yesterday, to give me a hand. He had been very busy renovating his house but knew I was stuck so came to offer a helping hand and most importantly a fresh view on things. And share a beer of course.

First start up was easy enough, as expected, but it took a few goes before she kept running. Rough and obviously not on all four. This time it seemed we were back on 3 and 4 with 1 and 2 doing little. He had the idea to spray some brake cleaner into each trumpet in turn and 2 hardly responded. Adjusting idle mixture and ignition timing did improve things, but then we couldn't get the idle down below 2000rpm.

Back to basics, took off the valve cover to triple check timing (found OK) and valve clearances (exhaust 1 just below tolerance, decided to leave it for now). Plugs cleaned and regapped, just to be sure. Then it was time for some Belgian fries but I did have the manual on the table. And of course we were bouncing ideas. We had ruled out air leaks already, but I had kept the throttle cable connected. That was just easier when I was working alone, as I could pump the throttle while starting and look at the revs all at the same time. The manual does mention putting some pressure on the throttle lever make sure the butterflies are closing all the way. By doing this, we found the linkage was binding a bit and the spring couldn't overcome the resistance. Hence the throttles weren't always closing, explaining the poor vacuum readings at rough idle or the high idle when things were better. It looks like this was mainly caused when the standard intake was replaced with K&Ns and the spring relocated. I had put it back to standard, but obviously didn't check properly.

It was too late and the weather too bad for a test drive, that will be for one next week. At least now I'm confident again, and I could really use a boost.

Thanks to all for thinking along (and making it through another long post)! And a special thanks to @jonwat for the very useful link on carbs! You were on right track with the balancing as well! 👍

@Steve V8 I knew about that method for timing, I use similar on Rover V8s. Pretty much the only way to properly fit the distributor on those, as there is very little room for adjustment once installed. The TwinCam is easy to work on in comparison. Until you need to take the distributor out that is.

Expect some pictures soon when she's back on the road! Maybe next weekend's run is a bit ambitious (another busy week at work), but she'll be out soon enough.

Filip

[jonwat]

Great news Filip, well done now enjoy 

[Escape]

My lack of updates was due to things not turning out as well as I hoped...

I did do a couple of testdrives, and things seemed OK. So I prepared for a longer trip, and unfortunately didn't get far. Stopped for fuel around the corner and after abut a mile I got misfires. Progressively getting worse, with the tach all over the place. So must be ignition related, despite occurring just after filling up. I cleaned the breaker points and swapped the coil, but things didn't really improve. Still misfires under load and at higher rpm. Ugh...

Luckily Wouter kept my spirits up and we went over everything again. The breaker points, despite being new, didn't seem to align very well. When checking the part number, I found those were also used on late Land Rover Series. A quick search in our spares department yielded a better looking set. So I fitted those, but now she wouldn't even start. 😞 We did get backfires, so the timing must be off. I hadn't taken out the distributor, so it could only be adjustment, right? Rechecked static timing, seemed pretty close, but now I couldn't get the distributor cap on as it was fouling the front carburetor. What?? Nothing had changed and she was running, be it with a misfire at higher rpm/load. I swapped the plug leads to rotate the entire distributor 90° to get things to fit, not clean but that did the trick! She now revs cleanly up to 6000rpm and feels eager to go. Obviously the points were at fault, but I don't understand why the cap wouldn't fit afterwards. I'll try not to worry about it and just enjoy driving the Elan at long last! I will have to go through it all again, as I have ordered new points and want to tidy up the routing of the leads as it's a right mess now. But result at last!

Somewhere in between al the fiddling I also found time to give her a good wash and shine, so she looks a lot better now! It always amazes me how well she cleans up with little effort. 🙂

Filip