Is electric really the answer?

[JimmytheTurbo]

1 hour ago, pete said:

https://insideevs.com/news/678414/chinese-ev-conversion-kit-vw-beetle/

For $2000.00 do you think you have to use that big long orange lead as you drive?

Thinking about it maybe if they put those things you find on dodgems over the road there would be no issue with batteries or charging!

[Bibs]

 

[webfoot]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/used-ev-values-could-collapse-due-fleet-dumping

[exeterjeep]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/house-of-lords-launches-enquiry-into-electric-cars-and-the-barriers-to-achieving-2030-ban/288157

House of Lords launches inquiry into electric cars and the barriers to achieving 2030 ban

Lords inquiry wants opinions from the motor trade and public on EVs

Inquiry will look into charging, sales of electric cars and incentives to purchase them

Call for evidence has been issued and responses can be submitted online

[Kimbers]

You can have your 2 cents worth here:

https://committees.parliament.uk/call-for-evidence/3226/

[Kimbers]

Interesting article in the Telegraph about how EV's are difficult when you rent them abroad. As I work in the industry I can tell you it's not much better in the UK!

‘I spent my entire Italian holiday madly searching for EV charging points’ (msn.com)

[exeterjeep]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/prices-will-never-be-aligned-completely-experts-tell-house-of-lords-committee-that-used-evs-will-never-be-as-cheap-as-petrol-or-diesel-models/289305

Experts tell House of Lords committee used EVs will NEVER be as cheap as petrol or diesel models

Industry experts give evidence to House of Lords’ environment and climate change committee

Committee has launched an inquiry into EVs and what is blocking motorists from going electric

Motors.co.uk chief says ‘prices will never be aligned completely’ between used EVs and traditional powertrains

Auto Trader’s Marc Palmer also gives evidence that the progress of EVs is ‘fragile’ despite positive signs

[JimmytheTurbo]

Well at least in the US EV are going well...

 

[Kimbers]

I've been saying this for years. Going Electric in 2030 is impossible.

There isn't the infrastructure, the range and useability of cars, the price of electric and lastly, no one else is doing it!

At last someone has recognised this and looks like the Govt will U turn!

About bloody time!

[exeterjeep]

Went to the local Vauxhall dealer to have a look round thinking could buy a 2/3 year old EV (cheap as poss),  to see how we could get on with one, then may be give it to our son to replace his old MG - and then a few hours later...... It was only a few days ago the Gove confirmed the 2030 date was firm (you can't trust a politician...)

 

 

Could cause chaos...

Labour's shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Darren Jones says the party is committed to banning sales of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030.

He went on to confirm that Labour would bring back the target to 2030, should the Conservatives move it to 2035, if they win the next general election.

[Kimbers]

They clearly don't understand the issues.

The Tories haven't done it to get votes, they have done it because they had to!  So many industries have told them it will cause mass unemployment, a huge increase in costs and it just won't be ready or viable!!

[C8RKH]

On 27/07/2023 at 08:16, Bibs said:

My Kia was on a lease at about £400/month and leases cover depreciation plus a small profit for the leasing company. This meant that they expected the £40k car to drop around £9k over 2 years, 20k miles.

2 year old Kia e-Niro 4+'s are up for sale for £18k, so a £22k drop. They've lost quite a lot of money on them and I'd imagine this is why the current lease cost for the same car, same terms has pretty much doubled. 

Don't forget the lease company gets the VAT back so that's 20% of the list price, and they will get a good discount for volume. @Kimbers will know the truth (and may respectfully keep quiet for understandable reasons of confidentiality) but I'd be surprised if the lease company was into a £40k car for more than say £28k after the VAT and discounts. So take off the £400 per month for 2 years and they'd be in to the car for what, £19k max? Still not a great return for a business.

2 hours ago, Kimbers said:

They clearly don't understand the issues.

 

Not just about EV's. But Brexit. Immigration. Law and Order. Eduction. Health. Never has a party in opposition had such an opportunity to win big, but such a clueless set of leaders and policies. Unbelievable.

[exeterjeep]

Imagine the uproar if some actually said the policy was immediate 

• And people can still buy and sell petrol and diesel cars second-hand after 2030, so they won't disappear immediately

[Kimbers]

Just a day before he announced it this article came out. It wasn't reported by the BBC and main news outlets, go figure!

However it quotes surveys were very few people either supported the EV policy and even less, 2%, who claimed they would buy an EV. The manufacturers are pulling their hair out and are demanding the 2030 policy goes ahead BUT, thats from a production view! If there's no infrastructure and their own dealers are refusing to stock used EV's then just cause they want to make them doesn't mean shit!

About time they were brought down a peg or 2 to be honest. Build what people want. Not what you make the most money on!! 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-12531247/Car-dealers-dont-expect-2030-ban-sales-new-petrol-diesel-vehicles-ahead-planned-survey-finds.html

Maybe someone needs to show these figures to Lotus. Their "last ICE engined car" may need to be extended!

[C8RKH]

18 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

Maybe someone needs to show these figures to Lotus. Their "last ICE engined car" may need to be extended!

The cause is lost at Lotus @Kimbers. I am sure that they will be looking at the policy change and the best outcome we could hope for would be that the Emira would continue beyond the current end date of 2028. However, given that this delay, in effect, merely puts the UK back into line with Europe (who were already 2035) I am struggling to see how this could be used to justify any change of Lotus strategy.

Interestingly, Ford were quite vociferous in calling this policy delay "disastrous" and linking it to their willingness to make future investments in the UK.

I found it quite ironic that an American manufacturer would now pull away investment from the UK given it had a date for the ban on new ICE, and yet, still continue to invest in the US where there is NO Federal mandate or country wide date. How ironic. How preposterous. How full of shit.....

Ford have shown their hand, this is about profit not the environment, and I for one, will not buy from a manufacturer that behaves in this manner.

[Escape]

Isn't Ford losing billions at the moment because of investments in EVs that aren't bringing in money? Just as Kimbers says, they're producing so they need the ban to be able to sell their EVs.

[C8RKH]

The EV section is losing money, but Ford is making shitloads elsewhere. However, losses on the EV side are expected to be $3bn to $4.5bn so they desperately do need to get EV's sold.

All of this outrage from manufacturers like Ford has got naff all to do with the environment or net zero, and everything to do with money, moolah, cash and power.

[Kimbers]

15 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The EV section is losing money, but Ford is making shitloads elsewhere. However, losses on the EV side are expected to be $3bn to $4.5bn so they desperately do need to get EV's sold.

Watch this space. Many Fleet buyers are being told manufacturers will refuse to deal with them unless they take a large % of EV's. That way they can justify their existence by forcing Fleets to take them or get no supply, whilst simultaniously the BBC and Car Makers will say what a success EV's are.

Frankly, many will get stood in a field for their lives cause no bugger wants them!

Here's a quote from the BBC's article today. Now take in mind that the article I posted above, which quotes dealers saying they refuse to stock EV's as they can't sell them cause only 2% of buyers want them, says they are virtually unsellable and have lost 36% of their value since January.

" Prices for second-hand electric cars are almost double (£31,946) on average compared to used petrol (£16,332) and diesel (£16,233) cars, and electric prices in the second-hand market are increasing as demand rises."

BBC talks absolute bollox and plainly lies or has incompetant reporters!

[DarrylV8]

We go through Southampton docks pretty regular and we assume Southampton is the main UK port for Tesla cars, not sure if there are any TLF members who work at the port who can confirm; there are at least 1000 Tesla’s sat in a compound some distance from where we used to see them this figure might be way off as (we used to see) Tesla’s parked up near the Tesla building so there may be two compounds 

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Kimbers said:

BBC talks absolute bollox and plainly lies or has incompetent reporters!

It has its own agenda.

[pete]

instead of fleet owners putting ev`sin a field wouldnt it be more beneficial to set the rental at a price that is attractive to buyers. Granted they would probably loose money but not as much as leaving them in afield

[Kimbers]

17 hours ago, pete said:

instead of fleet owners putting ev`sin a field wouldnt it be more beneficial to set the rental at a price that is attractive to buyers. Granted they would probably loose money but not as much as leaving them in afield

Depends on the price of purchase. Currently they are far too expensive and have no support, so they just aren't bought, period. I am getting rentals back after a year with less than 1000 miles on them. that's how popular they are as a rental!

If I tell you most fleet discount on normal cars can be up to a third of the retail price then tell you that the support on an EV is around 4-5% then you can see the issue for fleets, especially as the EV's lose 50% of their net worth the second you drive them away whereas some ICE's only lose a grand or 2!.

[ramjet]

I can't find it on TLF at the moment, but I was reading the attachments of how much each car company was losing on EVs.

I was surprised to see that Chevrolet made a model called the Bolt as well as the Volt.  

Gosh I wish journos would not just blindly trust spellcheck.

[Escape]

Actually, both exist. 🙂 The Chevy Bolt is an EV also known as the Opel or Vauxhal Ampera-E, while the Volt was a hybrid.  

[ramjet]

Well, there you go. I stand corrected. Thanks Filip. I have never heard about the Bolt.

I don't think I have seen either of those here in Australia. Actually just found out that neither have ever made it to Australia.

If you do a search for EVs available in Australia, it is a very short list with a lot of holes in it. And large price tags as well.

I remember looking up a VW caddy ICE vs a VW Caddy EV. The EV was twice the price. Why would you? You'd do more by planting a tree each month for the rest of your life.