Engine work to be done

[martynv]

Busy weekend, but great to see Mat again and meet Christopher.

As Bib's has said Freescan has got to be the next step, but as a guess if there's no spark I would suspect the crank position sensor especially as we were not 100% sure of the wire connected to it. May be able to come over at the weekend if you're still in trouble and go through the Lotus diagnostic routines.

Bye

Martyn

[red vtec]

Great to see old and new faces at the weekend. Dave and Megan's hospitality is second to none, hopefully one day I can repay their generosity.

Dave I gather the starter motor is spining? & you say there is fuel. If so have you checked the coil pack? You should be able to check for voltage before it hits the coil pack, if you have that then the pack is shot. Mine went on the mighty Honda, and no spark. It's probably a loose connection somewhere.

If you need a hand drop me a PM.

[matk]

Just wanted to pop in and say a big thanks to Dave and Megan for putting up with me. It's not often I'm sat in a hot tub at 4.00 am with a glass (and not the first of the night) of rum in my hand!! It was brill to see loads of familiar faces, and I've said before that this year I intend to do a lot more catching up.

Tech stuff. I'm sure Dave will pop up again, but to answer a few queries prev posted. The engine was connected up and on the first try there was a big click and a puff of smoke rising from the engine bay. On inspection turned out the earth straps weren't connected up, and the starter hadn't been connected correctly. After sorting all that out, the engine now turns on the starter, but won't fire. There is no spark from the coil pack. There is fuel. Crankcase sensor came with the new engine and was brand new, but was swapped for Dave's old one (which was working prev) with no difference. Either we're unlucky enough to have a knackered new one and the old one has failed at exactly the same time (highly, highly unlikely) or its not the crank sensor.

Same with the coil pack, which was brand new, but has been swapped for the prev working old one, again no change. Don't think it's the coil pack.

It was late when we stopped, and Dave's been at work all day today, so I'm guessing no opportunity yet, but I'm sure he'll freescan it to investigate further.

[andydclements]

Didn't know about the smoke and the starter connection issue. If that means you had the starter +ve connected to the earth (if not, please advise in what way it was wrong) it may have sent a +ve supply to bits that don't like it. Check ECU supply fuses.

[Sparky]

Would've been handy to know all that last night!

Absolutely - check the 2 ECM supply fuses in the relay box. And possibly several others. And then - dare I repeat - FREESCAN!

[Dave Eds]

Just been in to see Dave and there'll be no progress tonight, except maybe a quiet read of the manuals to see if anything springs to mind. Dave has Freescan but is not over familiar with it. However the two of us aim to give it a crack tomorrow night.

Keep the suggestions coming please guys!

[Bibs]

We did a Freescan day at his house last year, I knew he wasn't paying attention at the back of class!

[Dave Eds]

perhaps another one tomorrow then via webcam!

[Sparky]

Has nobody checked those fuses yet? That's an absolute given if the starter was wired incorrectly!

[Dave Eds]

fuses were checked - but which ones I don't know - but we'll start with that.

[matk]

We did all the fuses straight after the "starter motor incident". They all looked OK but we may have missed a couple of lurkers.

I think Paul is working late tonight. I'm sure when he catches up he'll be able to flesh out a few things.

[cjtpb13]

Starter issue clarified. The starter was wired according to the electrical schematic. The three main power/alternator leads were in proper place as was the white/red wire. What the schematic had shown and what was on the wire harness was a yellow wire connected to one of the spade terminals on the far side of the starter. Paul discovered that was not connected on Dave's original starter when Paul and myself where taking a look at what was going on and refitting the original starter. When swapping out the starters ( I believe that the new starter is good, will explain in a bit ) we discovered that the spade connector on the starter had a protective cover on it and obvious that no wire had been on the original. We did NOT place the yellow wire on when installing the original starter The bit of smoke was the two grounding straps that both Paul and myself missed installing arcing against the engine block as the engine turned over ( hence why I believe you will find that the new starter is fine as one of the earth straps was the main battery strap that had arced across the engine as the ignition was turned ). All fuses were checked and none found to be blown.

Hope that clarifies that issue or gives you a bit more information for diagnostic purposes...

Edited March 1, 2010 by cjtpb13

[rocket63]

Hello all. Blimey, that was a busy weekend.

Thanks for the hospitality Dave & Meg. Great to meet Christopher...Top bloke and really good to see Matt for the first time in a long while.

With the electrics, we started on the back foot.

The looms had been removed completely with no marky. Took a long long while to figure out!

So........This is what we missed. The schematic called for the postive feed leads x 3 (2 from the battery and one fron the alternator) and showed a red & white live to the starter solenoid spade connector and a secondary yellow to the second spade terminal.

The Yellow secondary was not required and I believe this is actually the feed to side mounted oil temp switch on the sanwich plate on the block.

This was subsequently disconnected.

Unbeknown only one of 3 earth leads was connected.

Subsequent turning on of ignition led to a click and a short on the starter solenoid that caused the puff of smoke.

When I poked around, i found the additional earth leads tucked away out of sight and these were re attached to the block.

The positive leads were NOT or ever connected to the Earth.

The new starter motor was swapped for the old, as I believed that the solenoid may have been adversley effected and wanted to eliminate a self inflicted fault.

All visible fuses were checked at this point and found to be ALL ok.

Battery was reconnected.

Fuel pumped primed and enfgine turns over but does not spark.

Check for spark. Nothing.

Changed new coil pack as a precaution.

Turn engine over and still no spark.

The new Crank sensor was removed and replaced with the old sensor.

same again....No spark.

I am of the opinion that there is no power to the coil pack and the fault is in line with the power feed from the ECU.

I had to leave at about 21:45 due to workies.

Where are the fuses located for the ECU? Are they inline or in with the relay packs?

Relay packs and fuses were checked on the rear bulkhead. The fuse box in the front was also checked and no faults found.

The next step was to freescan.

I think Sparkys view is pretty much where I am to at this juncture.

Edited March 1, 2010 by rocket63

[Sparky]

Nice one guys - thanks for clarification. That puff of smoke comment had me worried!

Agree with Paul ref ECU-power pack feed. The 2 important fuses are in with the relays, so you've probably checked them already, but worth a second glance. If Dave has a manual then they're highlighted in there. Time for a circuit tester too.

Then, Freescan.

[cjtpb13]

Sparky,

By the by I am sorry I missed meeting you in person over the weekend. Hope the flights went well...

[Dave Freeman]

Hi all, going to work on car tuesday night, we were all knackered yesterday so we may have missed something. Going to do a slow re check on the fuses and then do a free scan check.

Its all interesting stuff, yes we checked all the fuses, the one worry is we have a connector going knowhere, it could be the flywheel sensor, but then where would the other one go, there seems to be one more connector than we need. In my defence i did not mark or label the cables as I knew I was going to use the new harness but as Pauly said some of the connectors are difference and would have required major surgery.

We leave web cam on tomorrow night so you can watch what is going on.

Dave

[Sparky]

Yeah - I was planning to drop in unannounced on Sunday, but it turns out it would have been from 28000 feet! Flights went well apart from one unruly passenger (the wife). Maybe next time, mate!

[lotus4s]

There is a large ground loop terminal that should be attached to the top bolt of the clutch cover (bell housing)to block. Is it connected?

[rocket63]

From my recollection absolutely not. I believe the cable in question it may be ground to earth on the side of the block beneath the plenum with the two other earth cables. Davey dude will have to let you know on that one

Thats a great shout Jim. Thanks

[Dave Freeman]

Absolutely, Paul there are no other connections on the bell housing. However I have found a small earth wire some 100mm long, fine braided wire. Need to look on the diagram to see where this should go. It's one of those bits that have been found left on the bench.

Looking forward to getting start tonight.

Dave

Edited March 2, 2010 by Dave Freeman

[rocket63]

From recollection Dave.The bell housing earth is secured by one of the bell housing bolts. I am sure that I connected this very wire to the block mate. It has a larger round serated O spade connector on it.

That single yellow wire in and around the starter motor, goes to the Oil Sensor next to the oil pressure switch mate.

[Dave Freeman]

Hi all ihave run freescan and the crank sensor reads zero checked the wires and the wheel speed sensor was connected to it. Having trouble finding the correct lead. What colours is it as I do not have any connector of the colour the book states

Dave

[andydclements]

It should be simple enough, I think it comes from the same loom area as the other engine components (starter etc), unlike the wheel speed sensor which is on its own.

[esp88]

Hi Dave

The flywheel sensor has YR(yellow/Red) and PG (Purple/green) from Direct Ingnition Module

The speed sensor may has Yellow and Purple both cables are twisted.

As I read you have no spark, so check also power 12v from the direct Ingnition Module

the cables color are Green (+12v) and black to the eath !

Yasuo

Edited March 2, 2010 by esp88

[Dave Freeman]

oh plenty joy, what a f cking lovely sound................it only runs, well for a while.

crank sensor was connected to the engine temp sensor, the and the wheel sensor was connected to the crank sensor...............SIMPLES.

It will not run for long as there are loads of bit to connect.

going to be heaven to drive again. Guess we were all tired, well time to get the exhaust on and other bits.