Gray/Keys gate

[Rick Edwards]

I'm actually surprised that no one else has posted about this, but is anyone else concerned about the implications of the case of Andy Gray and Richard Keys case.

Does this mean that theoretically if someone is offended by a post on this site or a bikini clad lady sprawled on a lotus they can start involving solicitors to litigate over sexism or whatever ism is involved.?

I would not endorse in any way what they said, but the fallout of the case indicates that workplace banter is now illegal!

fuse paper now lit, I will retire to a safe distance......

[Bibs]

I've heard that Stephen Fry and Brian Blessed are taking over from them!

To be realistic, they're in the public eye and should act with a degree of decorum above what's expected on a day to day basis at work as their words are spread far and wide. I'm not aware of any widespread sexism in the workplace nowadays anyway, we have been in a PC world for the past 2 decades or so which is why this has caught the public attention (well that of the news at least). Is it still institutional?

[mayevora]

I think Andy Gray and Richard Keys should have been sacked after their ignorant, sexist comments on TV.

Sky Sports should set an example and give their jobs to female presenters....

Preferably really pretty ones with really big.....

[Kimbers]

Interesting that on question time Karen Brady female Director of a Footy Team stated that people needed to get a sense of humour and that it was a major over reaction. Whilst those that were agreeing with the sacking started their conversation with "I don't watch Football" or "I'm not into football but.."

Ultimately sexism is like racism and should never ever be tolerated in a work place (for the female official it was her work place and it was definately the commentators). However was it a sacking offense? In a normal work place would it have been an instant dismissal for what was considered an "age old joke". Again, they are public figures and should definately set an example.

I don't know. For me its a close call. They were definately in the wrong, but was it worth ruining their lives over? Hmmmm.

As a huge footy fan and Wolves supporter (I should have been at that game but had to call off at the last minute), I struggle to see what will happen with an influx of female officials if different rules apply to them over their male equivalent. For example, I have commonly stood up waving 2 fingers at the ref, with 30,000 other fans, chanting "THE REFEREES A W****R!" How would that apply to women? Could the club be fined for sexual harrasment?

The referee and officials will always get abuse from fans and players alike. Peter beardsley was reportedly yellow carded for asking a linesman if "He knew what the f***ing offside rule" was.....what if it had been a female linesman?

In summary, they were wrong buts lets not get too PC about this.

[Nelly]

Talking at work about this yesterday, I mentioned (sincerely) that Sky had some great female presenters.

At which point, one of the girls said "only because they are pretty".

To which I had to agree, but does that mean that Sky are discriminary in that they only employ pretty presenters rather than on their ability to do the job or sports knowledge? In other words, are Sky just as guilty?

Many ways you can look at this, but I agree with Kimbers, how far do you take this without getting ridiculous?

Not being sexist, but you can keep Sarah jane Mee on Sky all day. Mmmmmmmmmm!

Edited January 28, 2011 by Nelly9000

[Bibs]

When I used to work in a casino we could (I believe) contractually insist that girls wore make-up due to the industry we were in. Can't think of much more sexist that 'go pretty yourself up love' being writting into a contract! I think it was the same or similar legislation that allows a film caster to pick a black actor to play a black character and not fall foul of racial discrimination laws etc, we were a glamorous industry so could insist on glamour!

[Beady]

if women are not inferior then why do they need a law to make them equal ?

(running for cover)

[Bibs]

You'll end up with this lot knocking on your door...

[Laura]

Ultimately sexism is like racism and should never ever be tolerated in a work place (for the female official it was her work place and it was definately the commentators). However was it a sacking offense? In a normal work place would it have been an instant dismissal for what was considered an "age old joke". Again, they are public figures and should definately set an example.

I don't know. For me its a close call. They were definately in the wrong, but was it worth ruining their lives over? Hmmmm.

In fairness it was not instant dismissal for either of them. They were both given a slap on the wrists (and a suspension maybe? Can't remember) after the initial event. This lead to further 'offensives' being brought up from Andy Gray's past which lead to his dismissal. Key's decided to resign over the matter.

Not saying it was right or wrong for the course of action taken or what was said.

Personally I didn't think what was said was overly offensive, neither did the lines(wo)man it was said about. It was a bit old boys club and would have passed as banter between friends had it not been recorded.

I do think that Andy Gray is/was a terrible, biased commentator however and I'm not sad to see that back of him!

[USAndretti42]

so, can they sue someone for releasing to the press a tape of a private conversation?

[Rick Edwards]

is there such a thing as a private conversation if there is a mic or a camera nearby?

"you are never alone with a micrphone" as someone once said.

[arbell9]

The thing that bothers me the most was that they were not offered to go on councelling/awareness training to show them how their attitudes are not acceptable in the work place and give them a chance to redeem themselves. Its like you made mistakes but hey ho you are fired. At our work we have code of conduct reminders almost monthly now. Its not possible to be seen to be taking the piss out of anything, rude langauge is a big no no. Somedays it can seem dull as we all being PC.

There isnt equality and positive discrimination is now common place in order to attain averages.The MPs cite the lack of women in politics, do any of them consider that women mihght not like that work and so choose to not do it.

However the one area that its still possible to show disgust and piss take is about people being fat. Fat Nazis at work get away with all kind of insults and no one bats an eyelid.

[Kimbers]

Laura. I agree. I've never liked Andy Grey, despite him being a record signing for Wolves and our winning goal scorer in the Milk Cup in 1980.

However I still didn't think you could bring up past things to sack someone. Isn't there a time limit or something?

I suspect it was politically motivated as they paid him far too much for a pundit/commentator and prob wanted to cut back, lol.

I suppose he'll be on I'm a Celebrity next year!

[matk]

They didn't bring up past things. The occasion was historical, but only became public now, and therefore they acted on it as soon as they were made aware of it.

Noone has mentioned so far the Murdoch angle and that Rupert is trying to take the company private again and is likely to be drawn into a Monopolies mergers situation. Another reason perhaps why they are taking such quick action.

[Laura]

If your employer found out you stole from them last year I don't think you could use "but that was ages ago" as a defense!

We obviously have no idea what kind of contract is in place, if there are disciplinary procedures, grievance processes and the likes. A couple of press statements isn't enough to debate the legality of the sacking. We can only really decide if we think they're a pair of sexist pigs or just a couple of blokes who occasionally laugh at a sexist joke. As a friend of mine said, why haven't the "Loose Women" presenters all been sacked for sexist remarks continually!

[Nelly]

Soneone else mentioned the loose women example as well, I don't really know what the difference between that and what the Sky guys did.

If anyone should be sacked from Sky it should be Kay Burley.....the way she has spoken to some of her "guests" is disgraceful.

[Kimbers]

Also agree about the loose women thing. I said to Wendy 2 weeks ago, when I had lunch with her with it on in the background "If they made a program like this for men it'd be shut down in a week after thousands of complaints!" They were talking about footballers legs just the other day and one mentioned their bums, she'd like to grab em and squeeze em.......now hows that different ?

and theres the problem...men don't mind so much! Hell, if my mrs said "Nice crotch love! Get upstairs now...." I'd be there like a shot with a huge grin on my face!....If I said "Nice tits love, get upstairs now" she'd tell me that I could procreate with myself and knee me in my crotch.

Men are just different I guess.

[nello]

Oi Kimbers....support your Home Team.......Up the Sky Blues!

BTW Keys and that Lines-'Lady' are also from Cov...

[andydclements]

Just passed the TV as a Channel4 voice-over guy gave the promotional commentary for "Big fat Gypsy wedding" something along the lines of "And a role that would make a sports commentator proud..." LMAO

[pete]

see they both have a got a new job hosting a 3 hour programme every weekday on Talksport radio

[Bibs]

Called 'Sport for Boys'?

[comem47]

and theres the problem...men don't mind so much! Hell, if my mrs said "Nice crotch love! Get upstairs now...." I'd be there like a shot with a huge grin on my face!....If I said "Nice tits love, get upstairs now" she'd tell me that I could procreate with myself and knee me in my crotch.

Men are just different I guess.

Yup we are, put privately (I never would have done this when I first met my wife. I complemented her as a person, not the physical attributes when I sent her the flowers):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8VBQioFH44&feature=player_detailpage