Lotus Update - Evo Magazine

[hedgerley]

As the title in the new issue says - Lotus: A New dawn (Take Two)

A major update on their plans confirms the Elan has been been put on the back burner, probably until the end of the Evora life cycle. The Esprit, Elite, Elise and Eterne are all go. It also means is that the Evora will continue to be developed, with convertible and targa options definitely in the running as well as more track focussed versions. This and the decision to build their own V8 for the new range is based on customer feedback from Paris. And Bahar insists they will never desert their 'core' Elise and Exige market but they will be made more usable. He claims to have been misunderstood when he focussed on 'new' Lotus.

The new V8 will be naturally aspirated and rev high, a 'screamer' apparently. The plan is to fire up the new V8 this summer and have the first mule running in October. The aim is to reveal the Esprit in production form in March 2012. Very aggressive timeframes but Zimmermann is confident. This is the guy who was responsible for all of the Mercedes AMG engines over the past 10 years, including the V12's in various Pagani's, including the latest Huayra, as well as the Mercedes SLS, his last project before joining Lotus. He's got form.

The Esprit will go on sales March 2013 with the Elite, using the same engine and architecture as the Esprit (but front engined of course) following in October 2013. They are likely to be made predominantly of aluminium as the y are ditching GRP accept for design areas where composite makes more sense.

The Esprit will be built at Hethel as will existing models for the foreseeable future but they are opening an engineering centre in Stuttgart to take advantage of the Autobahns, the Ring and the fact that many of their partners are based in Germany. Manufacturing could move overseas given the larger volumes but major investment in Hethel will continue.

So, they seem to be on track but its a huge amount to deliver their vision. Harry Metcalfe for one is 'starting to believe it'.....

Edited April 23, 2011 by hedgerley

[Advantage]

It will never happen.

(Convincing all the naysayers that the new cars are a Good Thing, I mean.)

[Simon350S]

I was a naysayer but I'm starting to come around and am getting a little excited at the prospect of it working....

[NedaSay]

More logical! They only have so much money and the Evora is really not a bad car! It's a grower and it is all they have now they may as well sell as many as possible and in 5 years time time will come to present the Evora phase two/Elan.

The Elite, to make it into the showroom before 2014!!!! I'd say presented in validation prototype at Frankfurt 2013 for customer's version on sale in 2014 at either Geneva in march! That seems more doable but again the VVA allows fast forwarding development and essentially all electronic components will come from Esprit so why not! Some here will be really happy!

[Nelly]

Shame about the Elan being on hold, I thought it looked the strongest of all 5 cars.

I guess with that being the logical replacement for the Evora it may have harmed its sales in the short term if people knew the Elan was coming in a couple of years time?

[hedgerley]

The Elite, to make it into the showroom before 2014!!!! I'd say presented in validation prototype at Frankfurt 2013 for customer's version on sale in 2014 at either Geneva in march! That seems more doable but again the VVA allows fast forwarding development and essentially all electronic components will come from Esprit so why not! Some here will be really happy!

The Elite is basically a re-bodied Esprit, with the engine in the front of course. The gearbox stays where it is at the back sitting in exactly the same place in the chassis as it does in the Esprit. This allows the same suspension (retuned), driveshafts and hub carriers to be used in both cars. They are confident of an October 2011 launch and I must say the Elite is growing on me.

I've just been watching the FIA GT1 Championship from Zolder the other weekend and as always it was pretty exciting - the prospect of an Esprit in the mix in 3 years time is a mouth watering prospect.

[simonb]

Still struggle to understand this, Elan could be just a rebody on the Evora, and the new mythical Lotus is real - bit more power, bit more quality and the product is there.

Shame they are just talking about a convertible Evora, a quality product that they have missed another year on

Engine makes sense as they have Zimmermann, but I cannot see the V8s ever giving the volume to repay the development of an engine - and Lotus' reputation for building a new engine with 100% reliability from day one has been surpassed by others.

I cannot see the work to design a mid engine performance car to step on the heels of Ferrari & Lamborghini having enough crossover with a front engined GT to be an alternative to the AMV8 or Maserati that you can release both close to each other (unless someone else designs the GT and screws on a Lotus badge)

Would be happy to be proved wrong though

Edited April 23, 2011 by simonb

[Simon350S]

The Elite is my favourite of the all, the others I could give or take but there's something special about the Elite to me, so much so I'm thinking of putting down a speculative deposit to secure one of the first ones.

All I need now is for everyone in the world to buy some AV kit off me and I'm laughing...!

[Jonathan]

I'm waiting until they're actually on the road. All very well telling people and making models (I've invented a time machine as it happens, work in progress though....) but when the cars roll of the production line and into customer's hands thats when they'll be judged.

I mean on paper Napoleon's invasion of Russia was a dashing, clever idea...

The Elite and Esprit are logical choices to get done 1st and look superb imo, but thats just a working model....the original pre production Elise was different to the one customers got int 1996. Just wish they'd reconsider the front ends and save the back slapping and huzzars for after the cars are rolling off the production line.

[bingoking]

So a cabrio Evora as well

[Al]

Or a Targa

Both those points caught my eye 1st as well!! Now how about a Supercharged Targa/Cabrio with a dual clutch job as well? Keep everybody in this house happy.......

[nolotusyet]

This and the decision to build their own V8 for the new range is based on customer feedback from Paris. And Bahar insists they will never desert their 'core' Elise and Exige market but they will be made more usable. He claims to have been misunderstood when he focussed on 'new' Lotus.

The new V8 will be naturally aspirated and rev high, a 'screamer' apparently. The plan is to fire up the new V8 this summer and have the first mule running in October. The aim is to reveal the Esprit in production form in March 2012. Very aggressive timeframes but Zimmermann is confident. This is the guy who was responsible for all of the Mercedes AMG engines over the past 10 years, including the V12's in various Pagani's, including the latest Huayra, as well as the Mercedes SLS, his last project before joining Lotus. He's got form.

I reckon that Lotus must be crazy to attempt to build their own engine. None of their competitors are truly independent and all have big parents with big engineering resources behind them - Proton do not have the depth of experience of the parents of Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley; even Aston's engines were conceived while they still had access to Henry's resources. Mark's reference to Zimmerman being the guy behind AMG & Pagani engines is relevant in the sense that AMG was bankrolled by Daimler-Benz and even Pagani did not have the audacity to attempt to build the engine for his £320,000 Zonda, or his £1m Hyundai (or whatever it's called).

For me the target car for Lotus should be the Audi R8. It sits in the market in a slot that's slightly north of cooking 911s and distinctly below the cheapest Maranello iron. £90K is where the Esprit should be sitting with a V8 from (say) a Lexus. The R8 is a fine machine, it's biggest problem being that Audi badge. Everything else Audi do is wonderfully crafted stodge.There's a nice little niche for a lightweight nimble junior supercar made by a company with real pedigree unsullied by association with anything clumsy (like a 4x4 or an under steering repmobile - can't imagine understeer is a problem in a Lotus-Carlton).

I reflect on the TVR experience and their misadventures in designing and building their own engines, which produced some properly interesting and idiosyncratic cars but also sowed the seeds of their downfall. Lotus please don't do it.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I thought the Elan was the best of the bunch too, although I always suspected it was a rebooted Evora in a better body, i guess we can expect an Evora 2 with the Elan front end nailed on. I've no idea why they're going down the route of building their own engine too, as has been said before in this thread...even Pagani aren't ashamed to throw in tuned up lump from a decent manufacturer. That aside what's all this about making the Elise/Exige 'more usable'? MX5 anyone?

I have my doubts, things are being scaled down already, timescales ripped up.... New Lotus.... New Labour anyone?

ps Sorry in a BahHumbug mood tonight...

Edited April 23, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[Guest surferphil]

He seems to get more and more reallistic as time passes, back track a bit more and he'll be on target to a perfect scenario.

Esprit/Elite making a lot of sense now.

In house V8 always made sense but in the existing esprit being mated to the wrong gear box was it's downfall.

If it's reliable and advanced (which it should be) then there is a big market for a consumer V8 to fit a ZF Box. Sharing engines seems to be bigger than ever now Ford and GM have dropped all their sattelite brands and the market for smaller (i4) engines is pretty much covered.

Have to say that Aluminium is not a move foreward technologically but I guess it opens up the ammount of suppliers out there who can stamp pannels all day long for Lotus. Just too low tech for the brand me thinks. Cheap on tooling and unit cost though!

I still don't like the design but I'm hoping he will have the genious to offer the cars with BOTH agressive AND seductive styling! That would get em talking!!!!!! You out there Danny, listening?? Go on, I dare you!

[Iconic Ride]

The new V8 will be naturally aspirated and rev high, a 'screamer' apparently...

Does the EVO article indicate the expected displacement of the engine? Without turbocharging it will have to be significantly larger than the "classic" Esprit V8, especially if Lotus intend to meet its originally forecast HP figures. And I don't see Hethel (even with Zimmermann's help) being able to design in complexities such as variable valve timing, etc on such a short timeline. Wolf's good, but he'll not have the entire Mercedes infrastucture behind him on this effort.

Guess I ought to buy the magazine for more details, but the stores are closed at the moment. Even now I'm willing the sun to come up............. .

Edited April 24, 2011 by Iconic Ride

[simonb]

If they are firing up an engine this summer, and running it in October, then they either have fantastic project management skills, or they have a well evolved starting point.

I guess their chums at Cosworth have a shed full of screaming 5 litre V8s, and Lotus would have looked at stretching the rebuild interval with the Exos. Passing worldwide emmissions regulations, and having the commitment to carry on passing tighter tests through the model life looks a big ask though. Would be uneasy at expecting a race engine to tickover / survive oil being checked every few weeks / a traffic jam.

I would have thought a full engine from a major manufacturer would be a much better starting point - ported, blown, and bespoke engine management would make it different from origins

[Bibs]

Look at the grief the Evora gets from having a Camry engine, especially in the USA.

Phil - Speaking with Wolf Zimmermann, he said that recent advances in aluminium make it the number choice of 1 material nowadays. It can be used in ways never before seen and offers more strength and versatility than any other material option.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Look at the grief the Evora gets from having a Camry engine, especially in the USA.

Phil - Speaking with Wolf Zimmermann, he said that recent advances in aluminium make it the number choice of 1 material nowadays. It can be used in ways never before seen and offers more strength and versatility than any other material option.

Agreed, the sharing the Camry lump isn't something you'd want to shout about. It seems an odd volte-face that after almost 50 years of pioneering the use of composites Lotus start stamping out panels in ali. Meanwhile I wonder what's on the drawing board over at Team Caterham?

[hedgerley]

Passing worldwide emmissions regulations, and having the commitment to carry on passing tighter tests through the model life looks a big ask though.

This is one major cloud on the horizon - Lotus have applied to the EU for a derogation against tougher emission controls coming in over the next few years. They argue that a car manufacturer in their position (loss making, need a turnaround) should be allowed to double their average (range) emissions as they will still be well below their identified competitors such as Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini and at less than 10,000 cars a year their contribution to overall emissions will be negligible.

The EU ruling is expected in 9 months and by then of course they will be deep into the Esprit development programme and ready to run their new engine. The Eurocrats could kill the whole thing stone dead!

Iconic - the article doesn't mention displacement but I think the Cosworth link could be the answer to such a fast programme. And you will have to wait a week or so for the magazine - the subscriber edition comes out earlier.

[Nelly]

Look at the grief the Evora gets from having a Camry engine, especially in the USA.

Agreed +1.

The Camry is not exactly a glamourous car and to me thats the problem, irrespective of what the engine is actually like.

If it had come out of say a BMW (which has been spectulated for the future models) then it would have more cred and less of a problem.

I dont think its bad to use other companes engines but something that started out sporty would be a better start!

[Advantage]

Some seem to be forgetting that Lotus Engineering have been designing powerplants for various manufacturers for many years. It's not like they don't have experience in such matters.

[NedaSay]

Sometime I wish that Lotus would ask Jaguar for customer engines (V6 and V8)! Just think about it! Jaguar engines are technically proven and carry enough prestige while still being technically cheap Ford tech! Lotus and Cosworth could then retune them and nobody would complain! The supercharged 5l V8 of the XKRS would fit the bill perfectly in Esprit, Elite and Eterne!

[Guest surferphil]

Sometime I wish that Lotus would ask Jaguar for customer engines (V6 and V8)! Just think about it! Jaguar engines are technically proven and carry enough prestige while still being technically cheap Ford tech! Lotus and Cosworth could then retune them and nobody would complain! The supercharged 5l V8 of the XKRS would fit the bill perfectly in Esprit, Elite and Eterne!

Not much chance there, Jaguar used Ford blocks and developed on top of that. Since Ford sold JLR they kept the engine development and JLR naturally became a customer of their own AJ engines. JLR are moving away from Ford as part of their long tearm strategy. They are using the i4 engine Peugot use for the new RR Evoque ans XJ Fleet cars. I suspect they will soon be in the position to shop arround for a V6D and V8s. Hence my comment earlier about Lotus having more potential customers.

I thought the plan was to use BMW engines until Lotus had developed their own?

Aluminium engine is what I have in my Esprit isn't it? Felt very light when I loaded one into my old Freelander?

[Iconic Ride]

I suppose it all boils down to what the definition of an "in house" engine is. Or, more specifically, how much design/development/build effort is required to maintain the "perception" that the powerplant is "made by Lotus." For example, my [now in new hands] Europa motor was based on a Ford Cortina block, with a bespoke Lotus head (with the appropriate Lotus "engravings" on display). Lotus has already publicly announced that the New Esprit engine will be an "in house" product. Will they (can they?) remain within the spirit of that intent by "tuning" an existing marque's lump? How much modification is necessary to say it is a Lotus engine, and keep a straight face? They've already proven that they can build an engine from scratch---there's one in my garage right now. But their stated timeline is staggeringly optimistic if they haven't (as mentioned above by Simon) already gotten off to a substantial headstart.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Iconic Ride

[bingoking]

I rushed out to buy the magazine yesterday and couldn't find the article, then I checked the date May 2011. The new edition doesn't hit the shelves until tomorrow. What a plonker, stll there is a nice article on the Alfa 4C .

Mark, I take it you subscribe and get the issue earlier than the newsagents?