Lotus in the post DB era

[Guest surferphil]

If Lotus continue to pull out of costly car development mid way through they will never make a profit. The brand has already suffered from that and that is an un calculated loss.

Better to loose a little and gain potential than to loose a lot and loose all potential. It is a short term idiot accountant mentality to say this has cost us x so we will pull out. You may as well give up and close the doors now; as Lotus has to make cars or it will fail.

Who heard of a successful car company not making cars because they might not make a profit?

Lotus currently has massive potential and that is only due to the development work already carried out on the new cars.

If DRB carry on like this Lotus cars will disappear.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

The question is do DRB care or have they already passed the buck, due to become public knowledge in January?

[TBD]

Guys, 200 million £ is what the big guys spend developing a new axle. Developing a whole car for that kind of money is amazing.

Secondly, the if you've read the press article you would have noticed that the suppliers not being paid are body leaders and IT. They were involved in the 5-car development programme, hardly supplying parts for the assembly line.

[Bentzion]

Guys, 200 million £ is what the big guys spend developing a new axle. Developing a whole car for that kind of money is amazing.

Secondly, the if you've read the press article you would have noticed that the suppliers not being paid are body leaders and IT. They were involved in the 5-car development programme, hardly supplying parts for the assembly line.

I spoke to someone some time back about the elise and the budget it took to get it on the road. It seems as if Lotus are masters at developing on a budget that even a Ford engineer developing the Focus would say impossible and Pack in. I agree wholly about the expenses. DB did say that he was planning a five model range with a high percentage of common parts between them (i think I saw him say it in the video that someone posted earlier.) Even if you only built three and The Esprit as well as a True 4 seater was amongst them it could be a very viable business plan.

[cnapan]

I asked:

"Why bother reverting to a rejected bland old design when they were half way though developing a much better looking alternative?

"

Mario - you replied "It has some Evora parts and the development cost less?"

I guess that's the problem. Put that on the brochure as the main selling point and see how it goes!

Surferphil is right. An Esprit is an exotic vehicle that people can't justify as a form of transport alone. It has to look absolutely the dog's bollocks, because that's what all the cars in the segment are really trying to do.

The vast majority of the time, an owner of a Ferrari or Aston or Lambo or Maserati or whatever it might be are driving slowly along ordinary roads like the rest of us. They want their car to look special and be desired. If it goes like stink but looks like my gran's old dog, they won't feel very special in it and probably won't buy it in the first place.

Whatever process caused that design you posted to be rejected, thank the lord. It has to look special and be special. One or the other isn't enough.

[Suddabym]

So DB comes up with a five model plan that'll cost a cool 700 mil (which is, and I'm guessing, about 10% of what the big boys would pay on the same). He gets 270 as a loan, but then there are dramas with the last, what, 50? But then DRB comes in and throws 100 mil about and yet they're renegotiating to release the remaining loan. I can appreciate 270 mil is a lot, but is it, really, for DRB?

Seems odd to me.

Also, there's an article in Auto Express with an interview with Aslan (who I thought was the king of Narnia) and a big tick against the Esprit. However, nothing that Aslan was reported as saying suggested that the Esprit was still on. Just a piccies and a tick (although I was reading it in Morrisons, mind).

And, for what it's worth, economies of scale and commonality with the Evora aside, the DB Esprit is out there now. DRB can't turn the clock back, they have to produce Dany's car or something completely new, and better. Update and upgrade the Evroa by all means. Stick the new nose on it, please, do do that, but don't think a rehashed Evora will work as a car set above the car it would be based upon, cos the buying public aren't stupid and they won't buy leftovers. And, the press would rip it to pieces.

It's DB's Esprit or forget it for another generation and go back to cars priced at 30-60k.

So there!

Awesome!

Sudders

[Iconic Ride]

"Now see here, Mendes, you can't possibly expect me to drive this ancient tub at ten tenths on this scabrous excuse of a road. You know very well that my screen contract expressly states that undue risks to me or my wardrobe are strictly prohibited."

"Calm down, Daniel. The Broccoli family insisted that the 50th anniversary of the series simply had to feature the car. It wasn't a negotiable item. In any case, I've a surprise in store for you and the viewing audience. It's been a difficult time keeping this whole scheme under wraps, but DRB-Hicom and MGM have arranged for the introduction of the latest Lotus Esprit to appear in the second half's climactic scene on the Great Wall of China. You'll come to think of this road as glass smooth when you're done shooting the Wall."

"For real? A New Esprit finally? Good God, man. I'll do the scene for free, Sam! When do we leave?"

"We're booked on the evening flight to Beijing. We've only 5 days till release, and Purvis and Wade are feverishly at work, finalising the script enhancement as we speak. DRB-Hicom have assured me that the car is already in place at a discrete location north of Beijing, fully ready to thrash the cobblestones. The Chinese authorities have closed off a three mile section of the Wall for the shoot. They see it as a fantastic opportunity for The Ministry of Tourism, as things have died down a bit since the Olympics."

"Sam, you're a genius. The Bond crowd will go wild, and my screen cred will soar...as if I needed any more, but every bit helps, mate. What a glorious day for filmdom and the U.K."

And then John awoke from his dream...confronted with the cold cruel reality of current events.

[Guest surferphil]

Poor John!

(Is he British or U.K.ish?)

[Iconic Ride]

[Bentzion]

What a lot with imagination you guys are! Brilliant!!

[cnapan]

"And then John awoke from his dream...confronted with the cold cruel reality of current events. "

LOL.

I sometimes wonder if the first Esprit would have been just a dream too had some vocal Lotus supporters these last few months influenced the decisions of the company back then. Wasn't the Esprit a bit pricey at the time too? Wasn't it courting celebrity?

Bahar got a lot of stick for trying to blow on the dying embers of a marque operating in a niche hand-built sector where returning a profit requires selling pricey second cars to people who can probably afford another. Sure it was tacky at times. Marketing is like that. But it still helps.

He might be gone, but there's no sign to me that he was wrong. All that happened was that the money he planned to use in the investment plan has been withdrawn.

It wasn't just Dany that went. The budget went too.

The money men must see that there is no way to realise the potential of the Lotus brand (i.e. as a highly profitable competitor in the exotic sportscar market) without allowing it to reinvent its product lines for the 21st century, something that is going to be very costly and painful... and even then it may not work. Bahar's plan aimed to deliver a suite of cars for less money than VW would spend on the Polo.

If the money men decide they can't stomach the risk, then they'd be better off selling off Lotus, which might of course be why things are so quiet right now...

Whatever happens next, Lotus's best bet is finally to be owned by people who must let it burn a gobsmacking amount of cash to reinvent its product lines and relaunch its brand to help it compete with the best out there. The new exige might be spectacular, but a stretch-elise is not going to save the company, especially when it can't even be sold in the US!

[DarrylV8]

at the moment it can't be sold in the UK which is an even bigger worry!

[Bibs]

Why not? It's type approved for the whole EU and most of the rest of the world?

[hedgerley]

I think Darryl is referring to the delivery problems Bibs. A couple of the folks I know who have one on order have seen delivery dates come and go and they are now looking at March next year. I'd be surprised if we don't see the cancellations picking up.

What news on the Evora GTE? Top Gear tested it months ago. Wasn't that supposed to be out before year end? Do you know anything?

Just cheered myself up by re-reading the review. Made my day...

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/Lotus-Evora-GTE-vs-the-Stig-2012-07-12

With cars like this and the Exige S waiting in the wings I am hoping for a miracle from DR - that they get their s**t together and let Lotus do what they do best. Our lives would be so much poorer without them.

Edited October 23, 2012 by hedgerley

[douglasgdmw]

I think Darryl is referring to the delivery problems Bibs. A couple of the folks I know who have one on order have seen delivery dates come and go and they are now looking at March next year. I'd be surprised if we don't see the cancellations picking up.

All I have heard is that Lotus have "indicated" that the V6 Exige dealer demo's "should" be delivered this year. Like most people I am hoping that this will happen.

I have not heard anything about any knock on effect on my original delivery date of March. However I think like a lot of people with deposits down, once they hear about more slips (or if Lotus is sold in Jan like a lot of rumours say) the cancellations will soon come very quickly.

I am even looking at a stop gap Lotus in preparation for further delays. When a Scotsman (and an Aberdonian at that) put their hand in their pocket it shows how much confidence I have in the original delivery date!!

George

[hedgerley]

Well this sounds like good news. I really hope DRB stick to the (revised) plan.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lotus/60806/lotus-future-safe

[Guest surferphil]

I don't see any revised plan being mentioned, in essence all Aslan said was Lotus stays at Hethel and we get the basic fundamentals of the business right.

No mention of the Esprit.

He stressed: “Lotus is a UK marque and as such Hethel is our home. Not only is Lotus important to the UK economy, but also to the region here in Norfolk.”

“We have to be realistic and get the basic fundamentals of the business right. Then we will look at the next products. We are excited about the future and plan to grow the business,” he said.

Edited October 23, 2012 by surferphil

[hedgerley]

I was referring to the scaling back of DB's plans Phil i.e. the (revised) plan. My words.

As to no mention of the Esprit, unless my eyes deceive me -

"And while the Esprit is still on track for production, the other four new models revealed at the Paris Motor Show two years ago have been axed."

Although I accept this is a statement by the reporter. My hope is that he was reporting what he had been told....

[Guest surferphil]

Oh it certainly wasn't a criticism at your post, It was my analytical summery of the article.

I tend to ignore the fluff and sieve out the facts, admittedly it's not much fun being so cynical but I have felt let down by a lot of publications like Autocar and Auto express whom I personally feel put the entertainment value first, much like the rest of the media, where you'd expect them to be a bit more professional. Un characteristically I really want to know the facts of what Lotus are doing next, I find myself really caring about the success of Lotus cars as if I were part of the company, seems a bit odd when I reflect on it.

My old man would probably tell me not to be so sentimental.

[DarrylV8]

Why not? It's type approved for the whole EU and most of the rest of the world?

yes type approved, i thought originally the demo cars were supposed to be with dealers early this year (2012) with owners starting to receive March and yet nearly 8 months later we still don't have any on British roads (yes i know we've had the factory demo cars) i would say this constitutes it can't be sold in UK................ as there aren't any, can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say "January 2013" new owners will start receiving their new V6 Exige?

[Bibs]

They can sell them, they just cant build them although I understand this is recently resolved.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I sincerely hope so although it could well be a question of remarking as I'm gather a lot of deposits have been lost in the delay.

[Guest surferphil]

I wish I was wondering weather to pull my deposit or not! I was chatting to someone waiting longer than that for Mercedes to deliver a van they had already paid for.

It's just because it's Lotus that people get so alarmed because most people on here don't realise how good Lotus actually are compared to other companies.

I'd love to be waiting for my V6 Exige, Life would have been kinder to me.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I wonder how much the change of heart is down to DRB's silence and a loss of faith in the company rather than the length of time. I was quoted various build slots earlier this year, from November to April. I was happy to wait and I don't think that would've changed ... the deposit required wasn't huge compared to the price of car! Perhaps DRB have woken up to the fact their silence is costing the dealers orders, let's hope words are backed up with actions though.

[Kimbers]

can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say "January 2013" new owners will start receiving their new V6 Exige?

What people tend to forget about the V6 Exige issue (and many engineers I know at Lotus have confirmed this) is that, yes money was a factor for DRB on finally getting this out, but only because of the fact that it was released way before it was finished. Since removing the scoop plus having a bigger engine in than was originally intended (4 cyl 1.8) and enclosing the rear they suffered from overheating issues. They knew this but I suspect that Bahar was so in desperate need of good news that he released the car to the public before he should have.

All I've seen on here since I've been back is some people being critical of DRB. I can assure you that if it had been left in previous hands I don't think you'd have a company there anymore, such was the state of the finances. It's well known in Malaysia, not so much here, that the Banks had put a stop on any money or even releasing any more installments and without cash flow any company will die.

I find myself in an unusual position. As I've been so close to Lotus and it's a company that is so close to my heart and that of my family, I've always been critical of those who don't run it in the way that I think they should....i.e. As Colin and later MJK wanted. But here I find myself in agreement with the management. Yes, they have had it rough and yes they have done things I and you guys don't like. But in this case I really think they are doing things this way because they have to.

Even if it's just to sell it on, at least they are trying to save it and haven't dropped it like a hot potato like many would have when they found out the state it was in!