Alunox SS manifolds

[CHANGES]

Kenny , 

That's fine, I will mention it to Alunox, 

A direct replacement bolt on bracket will be despatch to you when manufactured..

As stated it is a stabilizer arm and does not hold weight, using the car without it

should not be an issue as long as your turbo is secure on its pipework mounts..

Just fit the new one when it arrives...  

[mr.oogieboogie]

The one i had made seems fine and its had a few k put on it in all weathers. Still not seen one one of these in the flesh as yet

[glynherron]

Peter, if all goes according to plan you can have a look at mine at the end of the summer (fingers crossed!)

[mr.oogieboogie]

Cool

[ragingfool35]

Dave

the turbo was recommended by John Welch.  Garret came out with a Cosworth housing for the 3071 that was bolt on for the Esprit.  its the Cos housing that is bulky.  the Esprit is the only turbo I have experience with, so keep in mind my ignorance.  it seems like they cast the housing for a bigger turbine and machined it for smaller units and didn't remove any of the beef afterward. looks like the same turbo with a non-Cos housing would be much lighter from the pics of the options on ATP website. also it was pretty affordable, I would rather keep it if I can make it work with the manifold.

anyway, I did convey that to Leon in recent email after I read your post about the design parameters.  with the loss of the CC coupling support, a rag joint support suspending from the chargecooler mount or something like a muffler hanger would seem ideal?  could also do something like a small coil spring support similar to the Alunox stabilizing bar.  both would be soft support.  if you have any more input, it would be welcome.  (after temporary fix with a bolt on bracket for top of stabilizing bar, the bottom bolt sheared after 30 miles.  it was an old used bolt though) 

 

All (directed at no one!)

the manifold is the best yet;  its an honest and experienced effort with honest aftersales support.  it's performance is undeniable, but don't forget it isn't factory, its still in development and early buyers of anything will always be part of that effort.  make any such purchase with your eyes open.  Personally I feel lucky that another manifold attempt was undertaken after the previous results and have no regrets with my Alunox purchase however it turns out.  (super happy with the exhaust system they supplied as well)

 

[ragingfool35]

I'm thinking this will perform both functions better than anything else, stabilize and support weight.

picks up the cross brace bolts and uses a simple muffler hanger (or spring) to pick up the top downpipe bolt (alternatively the top turbine housing clocking bolt for better center of gravity).  anyone see any cons to this idea?

[Vulcan Grey]

The engine moves relative to the chassis...  I don't think you want to bolt the turbo to the chassis...

 

If you have a flexible "spring" then the turbo won't actually be supported and it will stress the hot Stainless Steel manifold, which will have lost significant strength at the high temperatures.

[mdw]

Hang it from a wire loop?

[CHANGES]

Chris, 

That is one big turbine, for the compressor size, I bet that spools up in a heart beat.

 

The suspension bracket in your pic's has potential, Something on those lines

could be used to hold the turbo up . This could be fixed to a mounting frame attached

to the heat shield mounts on the cam towers. The flex units fitted, would give sufficient

support , also allow the movement required while protecting against any unwanted vibration..

 

That would be far preferable to a chassis mount as Travis has said..   

[ragingfool35]

yeah bad idea.  the turbo is about as far from the engine mounts as you can get so the position delta at extremes might be horrid and it wouldn't take much to ruin the day.

 

easiest would be a strap from the rear CC mount (on top side of the CC mounting flange) to the top clocking bolt, using the CC rubber isolation and the CC itself to distribute the load between its 2 mounts.  it would be nearly vertical though, so the 2 studs would take the brunt of the duty.  my concern was that over time either the rubber mounts will give way or the cam thrust studs would pull out or otherwise become damaged. 

comments on that idea?

im going to cbore the holes on the turbo outlet to allow a tbolt clamp to fit on the turbo side CC coupling.  that may help a bit.

 

don't know yet about spool time, engine is too new.  I think some other guys on here have the GT3071R but not sure if same turbine size.  I hear it has no lag.  I hear the Alunox manifold has no lag.  if this was a DeLorean, it might travel backwards in time...

[Scotty2]

My 89SE is at Alunox now getting my manifold fitted. I bought it back in Sept 13 but decided to take the car over to get it fitted with a guarantee. Unfortunately the engine has to come out due to the dreaded rusty nuts....

 

Looking forward to trying out the finished product.

 

Edit to add: It looks like the garage that fitted my last cast one didn't use the high spec nuts that I supplied them and just used mild steel. Damn.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Scotty2

[sailorbob]

There is no need to remove the engine for this. Just cut the old nuts off using 20 mm cutting discs on a flexi-drive and replace the studs. It takes a while but it's still quicker than removing the engine.

Edited August 18, 2014 by sailorbob

[60N4.7]

Any updates on the new support from Alunox?

[MikieP]

Just to add to these comments...

 

Underneath last week to add Freon and noticed that two of the four nuts (closest to engine block) were missing from the turbo bracket and the supporting piece had broken. Had the car taken by trailer to shop for repairs. Huh? Not a clue why nuts gone missing and bracket broken. Do not remember what part of bracket failed. Please forward my name to Leon for any possible fixes for bracket support. Otherwise, a superb adddition for the car. Took away the 3K bump, or at least it helped. TIA.

[sailorbob]

It is better to use Nord-lock washers and Aerotight nuts than plain washers and serrated flange nuts. Alternatively, lock tabs as fitted by Lotus work well.

[Simon350S]

I've kept quiet now for a while on this but yet another failure. Yes a couple of missing nuts but that same bracket has failed.

Yes I know there is a revised wrap around clamp on its way but....

Nothing, with no exceptions whatsoever, should be taking any of the weight of this turbo except for something specifically designed to take its full dynamic weight in the extremes of operation.

I really like this manifold, I think it's been very well manufactured, of that I've no issue.

But, and this is a VERY BIG BUT.....!

The turbo should not be supported by the silicone hose that connects it to the charge cooler, which itself is mounted on flexible bushes.

The turbo should not be supported by the exhaust down pipe, a thin walled metal pipe which could also become fractured at joints and mounts.

The turbo should also not be supported by this new manifold.

It takes fractions of a mm of constant movement back and forth, up and down, etc, to work harden and snap any fix that is put in place unless it is heftily substantial and specifically designed to take the FULL weight of the turbo and fix it rigidly.

Anything other than this is wrong. Plain and simple.

I mean come on guys, I'm not the only engineering trained person here and I find it strange this has not been properly addressed back at the initial design stages. That isn't meant to be a go at anyone in particular, it really isn't, this is quite possibly the best effort to date but it has just the one fundamental weakness in its design and that's all around the fact that the mounting of the turbo has not been correctly implemented.

In summary. To fix this properly the following NEEDS to be carried out.

1. The turbo must be substantially supported with EVERYTHING else disconnected, no exceptions.

2. Everything else should be able to be offered up to it and bolt on/clamp on and have absolutely zero bearing on the carrying of the weight of the turbo.

In essence, everything should be designed around the turbo, with it being a fixed, totally immovable point of reference.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Simon350S

[Chillidoggy]

I wonder if this might be better addressed by someone from Alunox? This is after all a non-Lotus part, is a very expensive piece of hardware, is an absolute pain to change, and if someone has cast aspersions, then it's only fair that the charge be answered thus.

[Simon350S]

Totally agree, would nice if they could answer directly on here rather than 3rd partying.

Like I've already said, I like the product and will most likely buy one, but only when this is addressed properly. It's a lot of money per unit we are talking about here.

[MikieP]

Not disparaging their product by any means herein. Just saw the thread and thought I should notify all I was having similar problem and as this was a group buy thing I was hoping there would be a group buy fix for these issues. I can certainly email Leon directly but as it seems the "fix" had not yet appeared, just thought it would a good thing to notify Mark, et al that it is not a singular issue. If I could buy two of these things for future car(s), I most certainly would.

[Trevsked]

You can have my two if you want :-) I bought two for cars I don't have so don't need them.

Trevor.

[Chillidoggy]

You're not by any chance related to my wife are you, Trev? She buys lots of things she doesn't need, although, granted, there is a difference in as much as she never seems to get rid of the stuff.

[Simon350S]

Thought you were going to turn one around and have it coming out the front Trevor?

[Trevsked]

That was a good plan but frowned upon as non standard.

 

Trevor.

[Simon350S]

Meh, purists!

[Jacques]

On my 1990 SE I have so far a stainless sports twin exhaust, which Works very well. Now, I've just ordered a stainless replacement sportscat and elongated tube to replace the original cat and ebpv. So far so good, when I finally get it by mail, and install it.

Since my exhaust manifold is already replaced with another original cast Lotus manifold recently, and it's still working, I've no immediate need for a nice stainless banana manifold, but I would really like one, and the Alunox sems to be the one to get.

But for sure I will not buy one that fails even quicker than the original cast one. So, it seems that I, as well as someone else, are in a waiting position. And that some people are even trying to sell theirs.

The propper soloution to me at least, seems to be that Alunox looks thoroughly into this and manage to make a proper soloution that lasts. For that Price, there should be no  future problems built into the thing.

Then I wil buy one. And I thinks others will do too.

This is by no Means a rant at Alunow, but the opposite. I find their products very interesting, and it's a joy for me at least, to see that someone makes some serious parts for such a limited produced old car.

I will wait and see.

Likewise for the coolersoloution in front.

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.