Crap.. Lost timing belt today while running... Now what?

[Vulcan Grey]

yep, you have the pulleys on backwards....

 

They need to be flipped 180 deg on the shafts, like flipping a coin.

 

Hope you didn't bend any valves!

 

Do a leakdown test!

[Techspy]

Great. Thanks

[Vulcan Grey]

looks like a cam installed backwards will change the timing by 10deg.  So hopefully not enough to bend valves.

[Techspy]

Thanks Travis. I hope that is the case. It was turned by hand after the build and no hitting was noticed. i will speak to the mechanic that built it tomorrow then I will decide if I am going to flip the gears myself.

 

I think I will go throw up now...

[Vulcan Grey]

It isn't too hard to flip them while in the car..

 

You'll need to remove the heat shield by the turbo, the chargecooler support bracket, and remove the cam end caps to loosen the bolts on the fronts of the cams.  Otherwise it is similar to a timing belt tension procedure.  No need to drain coolant or remove the belt, so it is easier and takes less time than a timing belt replacement.

 

I could get it done in 2 hours or so.

[Techspy]

Thanks again. Yeah I think I can do that with no issue. I am just praying to God that there are no bent valves at this point.

 

What is the purpose of removing the end caps? Are you aware of a "How to" somewhere that covers that? Maybe a green dot cam upgrade writeup?

[Vulcan Grey]

The cam bolts are difficult to remove normally, and they need to be torqued to 25 ft-lb IIRC, which is difficult to do.  It might be possible if the belt is on and tensioned, but it is easier to do by putting a socket on the bolt on the back side of the cam.  TO do that you have to remove those caps.

[sailorbob]

The 74.9 degrees of spark advance is normal until the engine fires up and moves out of EST bypass mode.

 

You can make up a tool to hold the cam pulleys stationary whilst loosening/tightening the retaining bolt. It needs to be 'Y' shaped with a couple of short 25 mm long legs that when in use sit into a hole either side of the bolt. 10 mm diameter bar is an OK size to use and if you fit a little bit of rubber tubing on the legs then it doesn't damage the pulley.

[Techspy]

First I want to say thanks for all the help and advice you guys have given me during this ordeal. I will try to pay it forward with what I have learned.

 

She lives! The mechanic that built the motor was thoroughly embarrassed and apologetic and drove 3 hours first thing this morning and swapped the cam gears. It started right up after that, idles great, and has great oil pressure. I went for about a 30 min drive, filled it up with gas and just got back home. No leaks, no smoke and a great running engine. The green dot cams make a huge difference. So much more throttle response off idle and off boost. It is especially noticeable pulling away from stop lights etc. The upgrade I did on the shifter rose joints make an unbelievable difference to the shift feel. So smooth!

 

It has been a long, stressful and expensive endeavor but when I backed out of the driveway it was all worth it. Every bit. I also have my garage back!

 

One issue I am having is the water temp gauge gets into the red when idling awhile. As soon as I start moving or turn on the fans (with the AC or Espritmon), it goes right down. Espritmon and Freescan show the coolant temp being fine (85-87) when the gauge shows 100-110. I unplug the wire going to the gauge sensor (on the thermostat housing) and the gauge responds so I know that is the sensor with the issue. I am wondering if I have air trapped there causing the issue. I will let it cool and then check the coolant level again. A quick search didn't show any other threads with similar issues so unless you guys have any ideas off the top of your heads, I will open a thread in the correct location later if I can't get it sorted.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2013 by Techspy

[jonwat]

Well done, she sounds really good. 

[Bibs]

[Techspy]

Thanks guys. The water temp gauge was just because I needed to add more coolant. All is working great now! Got about 30 miles on her so far

 

I am ready for spring!

Edited December 13, 2013 by Techspy

[Techspy]

Just an update. I have about 150 miles on her now and everything is going well. I have had coolant leaks that I had to track down. I had to replace/tighten 3 different hose clamps and had to replace one of the coolant metal flange tubes for the turbo as it was leaking too. I found that it had cracked right at the tip. I can't believe I found a replacement at Advance.

 

She is dry now! No drips or leaks!

[Shanesprit]

Hope it goes ok

Just a question I thought better to add here rather than start a new topic

How to replace the cam belt?

I really mean in access terms, the technical side I am ok with.

Engine pull it back off the mountings?

Exhaust and gearbox off?

I really should of done this when I did the clutch, ( the clutch was an easy job to do )

It might be better for me to get it done if it's easy on a ramp, any one have an idea of cost?

Thanks

[Vanya]

I know a guy who jumps into the trunk and performs the whole thing from there. 

[sailorbob]

It is not too bad if you can get access underneath. A ramp would be best but I suspect on axle stands it could still be done. No need for engine mounting, exhaust manifold etc to come off. The alternator brace and tensioner need to be removed.

[Vulcan Grey]

I do a timing belt change all on jackstands.  Half sitting in the bot, and half from underneath.

 

I could do it now in under 3 hours, but a first timer will take a weekend probably.

[Shanesprit]

What a nice weekend

My thoughts were either go for a drive or spend some time changing that cam belt?

I have had the cam belt in the shed since last summer!

After seeing this a week or so ago and then chatting yesterday with a neighbour who was doing up a Harley.

I luckily decided to do the cam belt

How luck am I after finding this?

You don't have to tell me I have done hundreds of cam belts and this is the nearest to a failure I have ever seen

[Shanesprit]

I actually missed it and put the belt back on, but it slipped as I tried to cheat and turn the engine with the tension loose, in taking the belt off I noticed the tensioner was not shinny ( not related ) so I happen to spot this while taking the tensioner off to clean it up

[Vulcan Grey]

Very lucky!  Haven't seen a failure like that before!

[Shanesprit]

I have a question

Do I need to disturb the head gasket to remove the camshaft box?

From what I can see it should be ok? Looks like the cam box has its own bolts with the head sat on studs?

I am just wanting to change the head to cam box gasket?

Is it a gasket or sealer?

[Shanesprit]

I am glad you have not seen a failure like it

I think the previous owner had a top end rebuild to sell, I know the valves were replaced but don't have a receipt.

I guess the garage broke it, believe the garage was family of the previous female owner.

I was really only after changing the belt as I had not fitted it myself, it's best to at least know when the belt was last changed.

[Vulcan Grey]

The cam towers are removable without disturbing the head.

 

That is part of the valve shimming process btw.

 

Use magnets on each tappet when removing the cam tower, otherwise you will scatter the shims all over the place and you won't have any idea where they came from, or where they went.

 

Before you remove the cam towers, take valve clearance measurements and write them down for each position, and save that data for when you put the cam towers back on.  You'll need to double check valve clearances and possibly have to move shims around or order new shims.

[DaveyT]

@Vulcan Grey,

Hi Travis, (or any other knowledgeable guru)

Is there a specific reason for silicone rather than tread lock on the camshaft bolts?

Just about to fit a new belt having done the camshaft seals, and can't find anything about it in the manual. Remembered this comment from a while back before we decided to take the lump out.

TIA

Dave

 

[Vulcan Grey]

It's to seal an oil passage so oil doesn't leak around the bolt that holds the cam pulley on. There should be a lock washer, so thread locker is not needed.