WC Engineering ceramic bearing turbo

[top-plumber]

One of these turbos came up recently on Ebay and I am still kicking myself that I didn't go for it. Has anyone got one fitted and if so how good is it?

Also has anyone got one for sale as my understanding is that there was a short production run and no plans for any more.

 

Thanks

Wayne

[fmxa]

A respected Lotus source once told not to waste my money on ceramic bearing turbos unless I planned on entering Le Mons etc

[sailorbob]

Ball bearing turbos are not just for big power, they spool up quicker than the equivalent sized journal bearing turbos.

[top-plumber]

That was my understanding also. Spool up time cut dramatically and reliability and stability. Not looking for big power gain numbers but a little extra boost without rapid heatsoak and a drop in boost after a few seconds.

[bullit]

hi,

i put a gt28 twin ballbearing turbo on my 90se, produced my own translation between exhaust and turbo

(see picture) 

not the quick spoolup is the big case, but you have the full presure even at high revs.

i use a normal cheep wastegate controler ( 20$) and get 1.2bar  al the time , blow-off valve on the intake pleanum .

and its working awesome.

Edited October 24, 2014 by bullit

[plumdeplakmuis]

Hi Wayne, 

 

It seems that WC is rebuilding the original unit with much larger internals. 

Looking at the flow he is creating it looks like he uses ~68mm compressor wheel or larger. 

Getting this in the original internals is not doing the efficiency any right. 

With efficiency being directly responsible for response behavior, 

Depending on the power you are after get a unit that is more modern and sized just right. 

This gives you better response than the WC unit. 

What power are you after?

[ragingfool35]

Welch now recommends the GT3071R

turbine AR 72 for cosworth

special turbine housing cosworth AR 72

comp housing 2385 in, 200 out, T3

 

spool quick, 1.2 bar holds for as long as I can responsibly keep foot planted

turbo is unreasonably heavy though IMHO

 

total cost is 1650+tax and shipping, including oil and water fittings and new oil return hose

[fmxa]

I still say most of us would be better off spending our money on high performance driving lessons than bigger turbos ...

[top-plumber]

Thanks for the replys everyone. Probably right about the driving lessons FMXA.

Not necessarily looking for massive gains as stated before. I have got the engine breathing better so I was considering the next option. Would like to make sure I can achieve 300 Bhp which should be do able without massive spending.

Plus I suppose I was looking to do another upgrade really. Keeps me out of the pub. :-)

Regards

Wayne

[ragingfool35]

I had SCCA course and cert in 2008, well before my bigger turbo

[top-plumber]

I was speaking about my driving. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. :-)

[gixxer]

Have  a WC Engineering turbo on my 4 pot. Been chugging away for quite a while.

Only objection to the installation is that the factory computer takes a long time to learn the boost curve. So I will be bypassing the original controls with an HKS EVC like I have on my V8.

Fortunately, I have 3 years of motorcycle road racing under my belt so the big turbo hasn't killed me dead yet. 

Friend in Thailand has one on his S4s for quite a while as well, has had no trouble with it, however the head gasket may have given way recently. 

He's has some track time too, so he's not dead either.

Both our cars run the red race code 6 chip, same cylinder head, oversize  chargecooler, same Alunox exhaust manifold, same size fuel injectors, no cat. 

It's debatable how much power this combo gives, but an honest 330 hp is likely, given the fueling.

[top-plumber]

Hey Gixxer, that's the kind of information I'm looking for. Real experience of the product bolted to the car. Can you explain a little more about the ECU not learning the boost curve of the WC turbo. Lots of lag? Has your pal had the same issue with the ECU?

Regards

Wayne

[gixxer]

The RR code 6 chip is supposed to have a 1.2 bar limit.

However when the power for the ECM is disconnected for some reason, like charging the battery, the computer takes a long time to "re-learn" the boost characteristics of the big turbo.

In my case, it's a gross overboost problem.

What I am forced to do is to peddle the gas while watching the needle wave around the edge of the boost gauge, which is distracting.

I'd rather be looking out the windshield than keeping an eagle eye on the boost gauge, as the car is accelerating like a wild thing. 

Eventually it learns the boost curve but it might take a couple days or weeks.

I don't know if my friends car is as bad as mine, the subject never came up.

Should have had the new boost controller in by now but have been lazy.

 

[Vulcan Grey]

gixxer,

 

Have yo verified that your fuel pressure is adequate?

 

I was getting what I thought was overboost, turned out it was a lean condition, and then the ecu caused a boost cut to the mechanical limit for a few min, and then it would boost again, repeating with the same problem.  Turned out to be a bad fel pump and not enough pressure rise for boost.  ECU never set a check engine code btw.  New pump solved problem immediately.

[top-plumber]

I have the five-0 updated injectors and new Walbro uprated pump with high flow fuel. BOV high flow cat and straight through centre exit zorst. Number 5 chip. KnN air filter and ram air conversion. Seems to me turbo is the next step in unrestricted breathing?

[sanj]

The RR code 6 chip is supposed to have a 1.2 bar limit.

However when the power for the ECM is disconnected for some reason, like charging the battery, the computer takes a long time to "re-learn" the boost characteristics of the big turbo.

In my case, it's a gross overboost problem.

What I am forced to do is to peddle the gas while watching the needle wave around the edge of the boost gauge, which is distracting.

I'd rather be looking out the windshield than keeping an eagle eye on the boost gauge, as the car is accelerating like a wild thing. 

Eventually it learns the boost curve but it might take a couple days or weeks.

I don't know if my friends car is as bad as mine, the subject never came up.

Should have had the new boost controller in by now but have been lazy.

Your issue is not the WCE turbo, it's the chip.

[LOTUSGT]

I do have a Stock Turbo for sale. With less than 29K. Looks like new. I can send pics. PM me is you are interested?

JG

[top-plumber]

Thanks for the offer Lotusgt. I have recently refurbished my stock turbo and replaced the 270 bearing with 360 which is supposed to gain stability and reliability at continued high boost. Want more air. Dermot really rated this WC turbo. Just wondered if he was right.

[ragingfool35]

interesting, I have RR6 chip and big turbo and boost control after resetting the ECM is smooth and spot on

[gixxer]

Grey, Sanj, Thanx for you input, I'll keep it in mind.

[ATSAaron]

Gixxer, if you have an overboost problem while the ecu is learning, it's probably because the base spring pressure of the new turbo is considerably higher than the old turbo. It may take a while fo the ecu to learn that it needs to run a lower wastegate duty cycle to achieve the same boost numbers. 

 

I won't actually have a Lotus for another ten days or so, but here is what I am thinking:

 

If the original spring inside the actuator is 10 psi, and the WG solenoid is programmed to be open 50% of the time (lets say that bleeds off 5 psi of the signal going to the wastegate) then you will get 15 psi of boost.

 

If the new spring is 15 psi and the WG solenoid is still programmed to bleed off 50% (this time 7.5 psi) then you will see 22.5 psi of boost. 

 

Aaron