Turbocharger part numbers

[top-plumber]

I had that conversation with Dave already Glyn. The supplier he used is out of stock of the compressor  and to have more made is large batch so they say that its on hold for now.

I just bought a T34 on ebay. genuine Garrett. it has the 60 trim compressor and wheel. I also bought a genuine T3 ar .48 turbine housing from a Cosworth ford. I figure the 2 should fit. I may have to machine the turbine housing, to take the turbine wheel. Also looking at bearing upgrades to either Ball or ceramic. I might have more luck looking for a unicorn.

Regards Wayne

[glynherron]

Thanks for the info Wayne. Another problem not sorted. One of too many!

Do you know the supplier just to re seal and bearing?

Cheers

Glyn

[top-plumber]

Turborebuild.co.uk

Massive range of parts.

Good luck Glyn

Regards

Wayne

[glynherron]

Cheers Wayne

[Chillidoggy]

Right, here we go, the latest installment from Fawlty Turbos:-

 

Turbo arrived this morning, no information about what had been done to it, apart from a graph showing what I assume is balancing. Despite me leaving a message yesterday afternoon for someone to call me first thing this morning, no-one had done so, so I made the call.

 

On asking what had been done to the turbo, I was assured the 60 trim wheel had been fitted. Bearing in mind I sent them an e-mail with all the details from Bibs which included the boost setting, I then asked what boost pressure it had been set to.

 

"The manufacturer's setting."

"But the manufacturer's setting for that number turbo is 0.65 bar, I want 1 bar. And I told you so in the e-mail I sent you."

"Well always go with the manufacturer's settings."

"So what's it been set to?"

"I'll have to ask the build manager, and call you back."

 

An hour or so later.....

 

""It's been set to the manufacturer's setting, 0.6 bar."

"But that's not what it should be, it should be 1 bar, and you had all the information I sent you in the e-mail on 28th January, which, by the way, I'm looking at right now."

"Well, either you can alter the wastegate, or we'll have to pick it up and do it."

"You'd best pick it up, I'm not prepared to do it, and if you'd paid attention to what I told you, I wouldn't be in this situation."

 

Anyway, it's boxed up, and they're collecting today. Time will tell if they get it right.

 

Hopefully the next installment will be the last, and a happy ending. Bottom line, though? I'd never use them again. Their work might be first class, but the customer service is severely lacking.

[fflyingdog]

I had a similar problem with the company you are dealing with a few years ago,i went through 2 rebuilt 'S4s' spec turbos untill it dawned on them they were supplying the wrong part numbered turbo.I went through 2 turbos within year along with all the associated fitting costs.It gets my goat when a company specialises in a certain area of engineering and falls down on simple part numbers which they are supposed to know. 

 

Nick S4s 

Edited February 4, 2015 by fflyingdog

[sailorbob]

You need to set the wastegate to 0.65 bar. If you set it higher when the ecu starts to control the boost using the bleed off solenoid you will end up with too much boost causing the ecu to shut the fuel off.

[Chillidoggy]

I just got through to someone there who appeared to know what he was talking about, and when I explained the differences between the two turbos, he said it should be set to 1 bar for the S4s. The S4 is listed as 0.6 bar maximum according to their Garrett specifications.

[sailorbob]

The ecu allows the the turbo to provide boost up to 1 bar by bleeding off air away from the wastegate actuator. To do this the wastegate actuator is set to 0.65 bar.

[Chillidoggy]

OK, now what!

 

EDIT: I've told them not to bother collecting it, I'll see how it gets on. They did confirm it's set at 0.6 bar, though.

[Mike6]

|Not entirely related but comment has been made about rebuilding the turbo yourself. I think my turbo is spitting a bit of oil as a small puddle accumulates in the plenum chamber over time. I appreciate there is a process to ensure you dont upset the balance if it is simply the seals you are replacing but I was lucky enough to acquire Bibs old turbo unit from Sparky to practice on.

Having dismantled it which was not an easy job I am now convinced that it is just too tricky a job to undertake yourself which is a pity as rebuild kits cost around £40 whereas Turbo rebuilders always seem to charge £500 which to me is an excessive markup.

[Simon350S]

Ian it's all good. Like has been said the wastegate setting is mechanically set to approx 0.6 bar, the 1 bar of boost is achieved by venting of the boost pressure by the boost solenoid, thus allowing a higher peak of 1bar.

It's a safety thing. If anything goes wrong, your ECU will stil the boost solenoid from venting boost and you'll be in limp mode of 0.6 bar.

See the long thread that Stimpy had going on. I linked some pictures and good descriptions of what's going on under the bonnet.

[Chillidoggy]

Yes, I did read Stimpy's thread, and everyone's frustrations had me cracked up. Stimpy, if you're reading this, you're a legend!

I also picked up on the mechanical setting of the wastegate. But during the conversation I had earlier today with TT, I was told that there was no way the ECM could produce the remaining 0.4 bar of boost, which didn't help matters as you can imagine. As this is the first time I have tackled a tiny turbo with a wastegate, being more used to far larger units, I have been doing my best to learn as quickly as possible.

Mike, the exchange turbo (albeit for an S4) was £390 + VAT. I also had a little bit of clean oil in the entrance to the turbo compressor, but according to my research, that is not unusual, it can come from the crankcase breather. I decided to go for the exchange unit as the car has covered 60,000 miles, the studs and nuts to both the exhaust and manifold were knacked, and I just knew that with my luck, I'd put it all back together and have to replace the damned thing five minutes later. I already have a shedload of work to do (see my engine and gearbox removal thread) and whilst I could have overhauled it myself, it would ideally need balancing afterwards , which would have meant sending away somewhere. It didn't make sense to me.

[Chillidoggy]

Does the ECU-controlled boost solenoid valve bleed off air progressively? And how is pressure sensed? Through the MAP sensor?

[Vulcan Grey]

Does the ECU-controlled boost solenoid valve bleed off air progressively? And how is pressure sensed? Through the MAP sensor?

 

The boost control frequency valve (solenoid) is PWM (pulse width modulated) by the ECU, so yes, it is progressively controlled by the ECU.  The MAP sensor is what is used to sense the boost levels.

[Chillidoggy]

Thanks, Travis.

[MrDangerUS]

On 1/28/2015 at 14:45, sailorbob said:

You can easily establish the trim of your 465133-4 turbo by measuring the inducer diameter; it should be 46.5 mm for a 60 trim wheel.

Trim is a common term used when talking about or describing turbochargers. For example, you may hear someone say "I have a GT2871R 56 Trim turbocharger". What is 'Trim?' Trim is a term to express the relationship between the inducer* and exducer* of both turbine and compressor wheels. More accurately, it is an area ratio.

* The inducer diameter is defined as the diameter where the air enters the wheel, whereas the exducer diameter is defined as the diameter where the air exits the wheel.

Based on aerodynamics and air entry paths, the inducer for a compressor wheel is the smaller diameter. For turbine wheels, the inducer it is the larger diameter (see Figure 1.)

Figure 1. Illustration of the inducer and exducer diameter of compressor and turbine wheels

Example #1:
GT2871R turbocharger (Garrett part number 743347-2) has a compressor wheel with the below dimensions. What is the trim of the compressor wheel?

Inducer diameter = 53.1mm
Exducer diameter = 71.0mm
 

Example #2:
GT2871R turbocharger (part # 743347-1) has a compressor wheel with an exducer diameter of 71.0mm and a trim of 48. What is the inducer diameter of the compressor wheel?

Exducer diameter = 71.0mm
Trim = 48
 

The trim of a wheel, whether compressor or turbine, affects performance by shifting the airflow capacity. All other factors held constant, a higher trim wheel will flow more than a smaller trim wheel. However, it is important to note that very often all other factors are not held constant.

[MrDangerUS]

FYI, similar discussion here, results should be integrated:

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f164/diff-between-95-s4-s4s-167706/index2.html#post5770129

Edited April 2, 2018 by MrDangerUS

[sailorbob]

The 465133-0001 uses the same 55 trim compressor wheel as the 465133-0002.

It appears that the 465133-0001 and 465133-0002 are identical apart from the angular position (aka delta angle) of the turbine housing to the compressor housing (30º vs 28º respectively).

[sailorbob]

It looks like the 465133-0001 was used on the non-chargecooler engine (e.g. the 'S' model).

[MrDangerUS]

Turbine Housing T3 (0.63)  was used exclusively on Sport 300. As a result, low end torque has diminished.  Learning from this, S4s went back to 0.48 a/r turbine.

Edited March 11, 2019 by MrDangerUS

[sailorbob]

The 465133-0001 to -0004 turbochargers all have the same 0.63 AR turbine housing. The S300 may be different but I have not found its Garrett part number anywhere to  identify it.

[MrDangerUS]

Thank you for the correction. 

S300 part number is :   P691.4021.6OOCF ( from Lotus Parts Book)

[MrDangerUS]

On 11/03/2019 at 19:35, sailorbob said:

The 465133-0001 to -0004 turbochargers all have the same 0.63 AR turbine housing. The S300 may be different but I have not found its Garrett part number anywhere to  identify it.

I have checked with 3 owners of S4s cars and their 465133-0004 turbos have "A/R 0.48" cast on the turbine cover. My S4s and my spare turbo-the same.

Compressor covers on all of them are A/R 0.42.

John Welch (WC Engineering) , stated that in his entire career  he have seen  one and only one S4s that had a .63 turbine and a 60 compressor, rest have been .48 and 50 trim.

[sailorbob]

I stand corrected, I've checked my S4 and it's turbine housing is 0.48 AR and the compressor housing is 0.42 AR. However the information I based my statement on was from John Welch's website where he states the stock system has a '0.63 AR "Lotus only" turbine housing with integral waste gate ' . Dermot O'hare's website states the same too. You just cannot trust what you read on the internet