Ugh really? Is this a floppy chassis thing? Nordschleife times

[benjamincalleja]

Ok what the EFF is up with this??? Is the esprit SE really only two seconds faster than an effing suzuki swift sport?!?!?! http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

[Advantage]

My daughter has a Swift Sport - she'll be pleased. Mind you, I have Range Rover Sport Supercharged, so I'm sniggering too. Do pull over when I flash my headlights, there's a good chap.

[The Pits]

It really depends on the Suzuki Swift that was used. Some are race spec, stripped out, full cage, race tyres and the rest. An Esprit in race spec would be dramatically quicker.

 

I couldn't believe how quick the Mini 'Ring Taxis were last year, hot hatches go very well with a determined local behind the wheel.

[LF1]

I dont think thats too bad. Only just behind the Boxter ahead of a Cleo RS200. 

 

It's a minute behind a proper Boxster

[Daniel]

take it with a big pinch of salt..... did I say pinch?.... grab a hand full

 

Some of those times are test drivers, some are average joe times..... there's no consistency.

 

Christ.... even Sabine has a time up there

[paulob1]

and the Esprit is a very old car,  with no driver aids, and old tyres, i am sure with modern tyres it would do better than that but the turbo se is only 265 bhp, thats not a lot and the esprit is not a light car...

 

my turbo FRP is the proverbial off a shovel with 320 bhp and now getting 350-360 bhp...but it only weighs around 1000 kg's  its third gear pull away is unbeatable by most cars on the road...but its not a lotus and its not as flat in the corners as the lotus..

 

do we buy a lotus because they are fast or because they look good...I suppose a mixture of both...

[Barrykearley]

Yes - but which car would you rather drive round that circuit in.

A horrible shopping trolley thing or a class act lotus esprit se.......... That's a no brainers.

It also depends on the real bhp output of that 20yr old car, ability of driver etc etc. on a simple straight line race the lotus would wipe the floor with the Suzuki - so what's that telling you??

[Advantage]

Which one would you rather drive to the 'Ring, do a few laps then drive back? As out of those mentioned only one has the capabilities of undertaking the journey without outside assistance - and I have to say it's the little fwd sporty hatchback.

[Vulcan Grey]

That lap time was done IN 1990...

 

Things have changed, nobody really obsessed over Ring times back then, like they do now.  The level of driving has really gone up as well since then, no people practice laps on simulators and really memorize the track.

 

That 1990 lap was on 1990 tires, and it was with 1990's traffic (probably).  Probably not a closed day like GM or Nissan use to set their fast lap times.

[Mark Blanchard]

Maybe it's time we consider the Esprit Turbo SE as a classic car.  And it could still waste the Ferrari 348, it's then competitor. 

 

Lotus Esprit SE 0-60 - 4.7 seconds

 

Ferrari 0-60 - 5.3 seconds

[benjamincalleja]

yea i guess, good point mark.  it just seems strange, it has so much more power than the swift, soooo much more!  It literally must be a chassis stiffness + tire issue.  Because the 350 sport did it in either 8.13 - 8.16 or 7.57 depending on the source.  i doubt even the 350 sport could do it in 7.57, i think the 8.13 -8.16 is probably more acurate.  still a good time even now, but obviously the late v8s were very different cars than the SE and other four bangers...mind you id be very curious to see/hear about what time a 300 sport would do..

[Chillidoggy]

And to find out which one's the quickest, it's now time to hand them over to our tame racing driver.........

[benjamincalleja]

Lol ii wish. Let's not turn this into a "will Clarkson return" thread I'm sure one is already out there. But seriously he should return...

[nic996]

I'm surprised it was that fast!! 1990 is a long long time ago for tyre and chassis development. Besides, as has been said, you have no idea who was driving most of those cars. I have been around there in a race prepared 325i bmw and was utterly smoked by a Skoda Fabia diesel. I am no racing driver but I know I can drive car quickly around a circuit. Also that Suzuki has a very good chassis under it. The Ring really rewards a good chassis. I had to laugh at position 36. Ford must have a flux capacitor fitted. They used a 2016 car. 

[DanR]

Has the ring been changed since 1990? Any chicanes, slow down zones or so been added or removed?

 

A quick check on its history shows there was an extra mile or two with other sections added back then.

[rizla603104]

I wouldn't worry. Speed is not the most important thing. It's the sense of occasion. I got completely blown away by a suped up Astra that looked like crap but went like stink. I clapped him as he overtook me - as it was clearly important to him. However, he didn't look like he'd upgraded the handling or brakes as he lolled and locked up around a bend - almost writing himself off. Pillac.

[Bazza 907]

I've just sold my Suzuki Swift Sport to a dodgy bloke in Essex (how's it going Chris?)

 

Have to agree with Advantage, they are really honest fun cars that are a hoot to drive. I'd prefer to be in one rather than an Esprit if it was mine and I was about to go out on a track.

[Vanya]

I wouldn't worry. Speed is not the most important thing. It's the sense of occasion. I got completely blown away by a suped up Astra that looked like crap but went like stink. I clapped him as he overtook me - as it was clearly important to him. However, he didn't look like he'd upgraded the handling or brakes as he lolled and locked up around a bend - almost writing himself off. Pillac.

Impossible to explain to certain people. It's like cameras and megapixels. "How much power does it have". Most people would rather have a brick with 1000 hp than a limited run work of art putting out 264 hp.

 

I regularly get driven past owners with their BMW 1-series/Audi A4's and Suped up Subarus who are clearly convinced they have the superior ride. Joke's seriously on them. 

[Chillidoggy]

....always assuming you don't arrive on an AA transport, of course.