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Kimbers

By Kimbers
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C8RKH Grand Master

C8RKH

Posted
Posted

Lol - an emotive topic on all sides, hence always best to lighten up as per Barry and the "camera's west" comment of mine!

It's all about balance - we keep coming back to that. As per your comment " ensuring that deeper intelligence would be available on those identified groups who are an identified threat " two things spring to mind. Firstly, Facebook and Twitter is being used every day by some terrorists to educate and recruit and so monitoring their "feeds" is not a bad thing in my book. If anyone wnats to scrutinise my wife's Faceslap account (I refuse to use it) then they will be well educated on cake making, jazzercise, aerobics etc and I hope they enjoy the read :)  Secondly, these "identified" groups, if targeted specifically and explicity, will only go and whinge and complain to the UK High Court about how they are being picked on and singled out. The High Court will say - bog off stop wasting our time you little gits and then they go to Strasbourg or wherever and we, the UK, find ourselves once again in breach of EU Human Rights and are told to stop. You can't be selective anymore - that's being racist or something else'ist and bullying etc. and so you have to discriminate and inconvenience everyone to get at the trouble makers. It sucks. It's just how it is these days.

Do I want carte blanche surveillance - absolutely not. Do I accept it may be a necessary evil?  Yes. Do I want safeguards and controls? Yes. Do I want to see friends, relatives and fellow citizens killed or maimed? No. As a result, I see it some form of surveillance as a necessary evil. However, If I was Prime Minister I would probably use the money for the survelliance bill to pay an investigative team to seek out and identify the trouble causers, supported by a Black Ops covert team to do the wet work. And I doubt their activities, properly sanctioned, would keep my awake at night.

I think some form of surveillance is necessary, what I am struggling with is where the line is drawn and do you come down on the side of less is best, or more is best.  It's not an easy call.

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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basalte
basalte

It is appropriate on this Armistice Day to remember that our grandfathers (both of them in my own case ) fought  to protect a democratic way of life from potentially vicious State intrusion. Their fig

Al
Al

Similar to mine! Only maybe delete the word Occasionally.   Substitute Scottish Elises and Autosport for 2 others and insert TLF between each.  Hardly going to set world alight with

C8RKH
C8RKH

Yup, totally ironic that the cameras are all pointing west, when the threat these days is from the east! I get all the easy quips re being one of the 4% etc, so

C8RKH Grand Master

C8RKH

Posted
Posted

Well, I'm certainly very interested in the last 2 Mark - ;)

 

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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Barrykearley Grand Master

Barrykearley

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I've watched with great interest the surveillance films of mr jihadi john getting the good news from a hellfire....... Yeehaaa that's a nice flash

 

rot in hell dear john

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Only here once

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Al Community Regular

Al

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mark Blanchard said:

Well I'm not bother who looks.  Who's going to be interested in my Internet history:

thelotusforums

BBC weather

Mustang owners club

Telegraph

Big boobs occasionally

thelotusforums again... 

 

 

Similar to mine! Only maybe delete the word Occasionally.  :sofa: Substitute Scottish Elises and Autosport for 2 others and insert TLF between each.  Hardly going to set world alight with intrigue.  Interestingly I saw a report today that stated 50% of all men had contemplated suicide at some point. - the other 50% were still single.

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basalte Collaborator

basalte

Posted
Posted

Interesting point raised above about suicide.(C`mon, yes! it`s Friday night !) It is a criminal offence to aid and abet suicide so if your much-loved partner God Forbid is in so much pain they want to pop their clogs  and you keep searching for "Euthanasia"..".Dignitas" etc you could find yourself in some trouble from the off. Lots of embarrassing searches aren`t to do with porn or tourism (as Mr. Bush calls it) but may get turned up anyway.

I suppose the basic question is : do I trust our institutions to keep our data safe ? For example, do I trust them to shoot real bombers and not Brazilian

electricians ? 

No I do not !

Fortunately it`s not a left versus right issue-David Davies MP and the late Tony Benn were of one mind in excoriating the Snoopers` Charter, and the notorious Edward Snowden was a real Born on the 4th July straight down the line  CIA  guy until he saw how his colleagues were acting.... 

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C8RKH Grand Master

C8RKH

Posted
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So what's the answer guys? As Shakespere probably said "to snoop or not to snoop, that is the question"? I think my position is clear, snoop away.

How about others in the other camp? Do we do nothing in case we make a mistake? Well let's not cry if as a result many more die thanks to our inaction, at least we can say we are free from snooping eh? What is the alternative proposal?

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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C8RKH Grand Master

C8RKH

Posted
Posted

So here we go again - this is what we're all up against.

 
Paris again too. Tragic.

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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Barrykearley Grand Master

Barrykearley

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8 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Snoop - say nowt - and then proactively wipe out the issues before they become an issue

Shall say it again ^^

paris is tragic - just woke up to see the news. Rip to those innocent souls

Only here once

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C8RKH Grand Master

C8RKH

Posted
Posted

This kind of sick commitment to the killing of innocent people is what we really need to fight against. Our preoccupation with not wanting to be snooped on and the watering down of our intelligence services and the actions of Snowden are costing people their lives whether we want to admit it or not.

If there was no threat we wouldn't need snooping, there is, so we do.

Let's focus on the threat, neutralise it, then scale back the snoopibg accordingly.

Thoughts are with my ex colleagues based in Paris who thankfully are all safe and well this morning.

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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Kimbers Mentor

Kimbers

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Whilst I agree with lots of you that the online surveillence bill is badly thought out, I can't agree with the whole "Camera" thing. I have seen so much good come from both CCTV and store CCTV from catching thieves to serious assaults and even murders. Much of the time, even if the area isn't covered by city centre CCTV you can track cars and people by store CCTV/Garage CCTV etc etc. Imagine of someone seriously injured you on purpose, wouldn't you want the Police to use everything in their power to catch the person?

No, I don't understand the CCTV issue. It's against the law for someone to have CCTV pointing at your house or into you private space but covering public area's? Fine. 

BTW, they have caught some of the people involved in the Paris incident by CCTV (especially the "Black Car they followed all the way to Belgium).

Possibly save your life. Check out this website. https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/mens-cancer

 

 

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basalte Collaborator

basalte

Posted
Posted

Looks like this debate has suddenly become a bit academic with the attacks in Paris, they can probably rush through any snooping legislation they want now and anyone who doesn`t go along with it will get called "soft". But two reports today are of relevance:

-Firstly the perpetrators of the Paris mass murders were known to the authorities, they were not found "online"- much less found planning anything - and secondly that relevant plans use  messages passed using PlayStation 4, not the net. How effective will it all be ?

(That`s apart from the big moral questions-that its clear they want the authorities to overreact if they can , it makes the murderers  feel more important than the miserable dehumanised tinpot dictators they actually are).

     "I see all the innocents, the human sacrifice, and if death comes so cheap, then the same goes for life !" THE CLASH

 

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C8RKH Grand Master

C8RKH

Posted
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Doesn't the PS4 also use the internet for the comms?  It might be a "private" network but it uses the internet as the transport mechanism and the end users broadband connections?

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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Bibs Grand Master

Bibs

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Posted

All comms via those kind of networks are encrypted. It just seems the PS4 was the medium of choice in this instance...

Free stuff like PGP is pretty much unbreakable, it's not hard to use secure communications in this day and age which is why this whole surveillance bill is moot.

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators.

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100th_Idiot Collaborator

100th_Idiot

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Posted

The report of the PS4 being used was incorrect but very widely reported. PS4 comms are not encrypted anyway. Some other mouth yelled out that they were using WhatsApp. Also not correct but this is what we will get. Misinformation leading to bad legislation.

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