The Donald.

[Vanya]

I'd like to chime in with some thoughts on how this will affect the political landscape in Europe. 

I believe a part of the reason the polls were wrong (deducting the usual issues with sample groups etc) is that many feared openly voicing their support for such a polarizing and politically charged candidate, even if polls were carried out with some degree of anonymity. 

Trump's election will likely embolden the corresponding group of voters throughout Europe who are at present marginalized and ostracized by established media and politicians.

A large part of Europe is riding a wave of right wing populism which is still on the margins. These parties will get a fresh gust of wind in their sails with Trump as their reference, and their supporters, having seen what has been accomplished in the US and UK will find their collective resolve strengthened.

Using Sweden as an example, I firmly believe that the next election will see the right-wing Sweden Democrats gain a majority in parliament, in part due to the above factors, but also because like the US, people are simply tired of career politicians who accomplish absolutely nothing except upholding  a rigid veneer of political correctness while allowing citizens to suffer the fate of rampant crime, corruption and state decay at their expense. The same will occur in France and elsewhere. 

The "cultural left" as they are called here in Sweden (a privileged elite who are as far removed from genuine leftist ideals as can be), are shitting bricks right now. Because this does not compute for them. Their only tool is to label Trump supporters and their national equivalents racists and luddites. And they will continue to do this until the day they are ousted from office (or their respective publications). All while remaining blissfully unaware that it was their idle hands and naiveté that promoted the phenomenon in the first place. Instead of dealing with challenges and managing the country, they've been busy pointing fingers and procrastinating, and pursuing ideals with wreckless abandon.

As for the USA, interesting times await. Trump is a douchebag and the antonym of a gentleman, but it IS refreshing to not know what will happen next.

If Hillary hadn't been so greedy and the DNC hadn't been in her pocket we might have been Feeling The Bern right now, but she HAD to have it her way..... 

[Bibs]

I'll leave this here...

Quote

But anyway, you know, this is our guy. This is who we picked. What does that say about America? That we’re still immeasurably more racist and more sexist than anyone might have thought possible? Absolutely. But also that we’re shockingly, breathtakingly careless. This is—this night has made clear—a nation full of people who care for nothing, who are so heedless of our place as the most powerful nation on earth that we entrusted its leadership to this man. We’ve elected a man with zero experience in public service, zero military experience, and a toxic relationship with his own party. We voted into office a man who reportedly asked, during a national security briefing, why we don’t just use our nuclear weapons. We’ve elected the president we deserve, and God help us all.

 

 

[C8RKH]

A great post @vanya and a good reposte to the article posted by @bibs. 

I think people have had enough of career politicians and certainly in the UK we actually have the left, New Labour, and the spin of Blair, Mandelson et al to blame for it.

Before we all foretell and prophisise doom and gloom within the first 12 hours, let's observe and examine.

I really did not like Hilary and can understand why voters rejected her. Not saying Trump is the best alternative, but in the end he was the only alternative.

We seem to be judging him BEFORE he has done the dirty. So what does that say about the person who wrote the post that @Bibs put up?

It says to me that they are elitist. A bigot. A potential snob. Judgemental and closed minded. so much for taking the high ground!

Let's judge this President on his deeds and actions as, you know, the President. Remind me again just what difference did Obama, nice man as he is, actually deliver and achieve?

[Chillidoggy]

"The "cultural left" as they are called here in Sweden (a privileged elite who are as far removed from genuine leftist ideals as can be)"

We call them 'Champagne Socialists' here.

[C8RKH]

15 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

 

 'Champagne Socialists'

You must be well educated. i just use one word that like yours starts with "C" and ends in "ts".

[Bibs]

You don't work for the Oz Tourist Board do you?

Oh, and this pic is quite ironic given Germany's recent warning to the USA...

[Malcolm Feth]

Last two US presidents brough mostly war and screwed up half of the world... Clinton would continue their work.
Sad is the fact, that such big and powerful country ended up with two very shitty candidates.
It's like choosing between shooting yourself or hanging...

Oh well... We live in very interesting times...

[Chillidoggy]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

You must be well educated. i just use one word that like yours starts with "C" and ends in "ts".

 

"Well educated"? Absolutely, I'm a product of one of those grammar schools so despised by the aforementioned 'see you next Tuesday' brigade.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to the rather scrummy '95 Argentinian Malbec from Waitrose, and the fresh pasta hand-rolled by genuine Italian virgins, in order to debate he result of the shocking news from across the pond with the rest of the weird-beard hipsters.

 

 

 

 

Just kidding about the Italian virgin-rolled pasta, would you believe Waitrose had none on the shelf?

[Iconic Ride]

Waaaayyy back in this thread I stated my belief (still firmly held) that we (the U.SA.) will survive the results of this election. We always have, for better or worse. The office of The Presidency is, to be sure, a powerful position to be in. Nonetheless, it is not without its limits, some imposed by "The Founders," others by the world we live in. Granted, with the Republican Party now controlling (still) both houses of Congress and with a Republican President in place, they will definitely have numerous opportunities to further their goals...whatever they may really be. The difference this time around is that their "standard bearer to be" in the White House was a Democrat until three years ago. His beliefs and governmental concepts (such as they are) do not all conform to traditional Republican views...at least a significant number of them. If nothing else, he has assuredly shaken the party to the core. His fence mending task ahead is large. 

President-elect Donald J. Trump is going to have to take a mandatory crash course in international "civics." He begins, as of today, to receive daily security briefings which may or may not open his eyes to the actual complexities of global interplay. The biggest smile from any international country's leader's observation of the election's results came from none other than Vladimir Putin. This in itself I find troubling. 

The silver lining, if one is to be found, in this election's "upset" is that the duties of office, the real world constraints and restraints that accompany the position, and the steep learning curve faced by Trump will, hopefully, create within his psyche a personal mandate to become a better person than his exterior persona seems to have indicated. Secondarily, his selections of cabinet, advisers, and other governmental department functionaries will be of paramount importance to the well being of this country as we go forward. His most significant choice, the Supreme Court vacancy nomination to replace Antonin Scalia, a position held for life, will have far reaching consequences for the future of this nation. 

I will, as one should, take a "wait and see" outlook for the moment. He won this election fair 'n square, rancorous as the process was. It's now up to him to deliver. 

 

 

[Barrykearley]

Well I'm off in the piss tonight - reckon it's a great result for all......

look forward to seeing the value of the $ fall - that should balance out the warned increase in walkers crisps. Every cloud and all that 

[comem47]

5 minutes ago, Iconic Ride said:

 

I will, as one should, take a "wait and see" outlook for the moment. He won this election fair 'n square, rancorous as the process was. It's now up to him to deliver. 

But you can be sure if he doesn't deliver it will still be "Obama's fault"  

(couldn't resist)

[Iconic Ride]

2 minutes ago, comem47 said:

it will still be "Obama's fault"  

Ha! Are you referring to the country's longest running economic positive growth rate (If somewhat subdued) and lowest unemployment figure in years, or something else?

[Barrykearley]

What about the price of walkers crisps ??? Oh and marmite 

[Iconic Ride]

Crisps! Crisps! What about Esprit parts...the truly important aspects of currency fluctuations?

 

[Iconic Ride]

My sister, who lives in California (which went for Hillary by a 2 to 1 margin), is not a happy camper today. 

On the plus side, as she noted, California voted to approve the recreational use of marijuana. "We're gonna' need it," she texted.

[Jacques]

I've tried to stay tuned to the election campaign, watching the shows, oops, the direct talks, reading the analyzes, watched both American and foreign debates etc, and taken a look at what they represent. To me at least, they were both full of garbage. Absolutely useless both of them. I find it much more interesting to look into what happened in the past that led up to the situation of today's result. I agree with those who have said, that they too think, that the political landscape is so far away from the population, that this election is simply not about electing a president of the USA, but a nationwide protest against all of it. Who cares, if a president is backed up by huge sponsors who made a hush hush agreement along the line of "I get you the funds, you get me power" or lots of small sponsors who is brainwashed or too starved mentally to see what is going on? It'll be the same anyway. I think that both of these socalled candidates are very much capable of pressing a big red button, despite their appearances, because in both of them lies a huge rage and hate for the World they live in and certainly it's population. They both got it in different ways, but ultimately led to the same.

As I said before, someone said that democracy is way too important to let the masses handle it... And we've seen just that, unfortunately.

What is most tragic in my view, is that the US Citizens did not vote for someone more qualified in the first place. It seems that the old word of you cannot serve two masters, still holds true.

As for the protest against the political establishment around the Democrats, or maybe countryside vs. Washington, all I can say is, that some years ago, the teaparty movement tried to rebell a little bit against the political establishment from the opposite side of the Clinton Clan. But as more and more voters voted for them, and they rose to a certain level of power, the voters found those they voted for, to be the exact same establishment, being republican or democrat. And it fell to the ground naturally, as they are all wolves, who eat democracy, caring, respect, humanity and kindness all day long, and shit on the corpses afterwards. Nothing new here, really.

Anyway, I certainly agree with those who say, that people in many a country are getting increasingly tired of the political establishment, no matter what party of socalled view they represent, all I can say is yes, that seems to be the view. Understandably.

Poor Americans, poor russians, poor chinese, poor the rest of us and the planet.

I feel ashamed, not of Clinton or Trump. but that human kind cannot do better, thereby in efffect including myself as well. We seem to have evolved over the milleniums, or maybe we just found more sophisticated ways of doing the same old thing?

In the end, I don't think it matters who wins, because ultimately it shows the same result.

Me? I look upwards, think of my Family and do what I like, without bothering others too much. Well, maybe except a 911 driver once in a while

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[C8RKH]

35 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

 

"Well educated"? Absolutely, I'm a product of one of those grammar schools so despised by the aforementioned 'see you next Tuesday' brigade.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to the rather scrummy '95 Argentinian Malbec from Waitrose, and the fresh pasta hand-rolled by genuine Italian virgins, in order to debate he result of the shocking news from across the pond with the rest of the weird-beard hipsters.

 

 

 

 

Just kidding about the Italian virgin-rolled pasta, would you believe Waitrose had none on the shelf?

Damn. I'm a comprehensive school lout currently enjoying a bottle of Gavi with my fresh prawns in olive oil with chilli, awaiting my sea bass fillets with brocollini and rosemary toasted potatoes in Carluccios. It's a chain, but better than KFC

Maybe we should start a "what you having for tea ( comprehensive ) or supper ( grammar ) thread.  lol.

[C8RKH]

I hate the Daily Mail but this popped up on Google news.

Remainers. Clinton supporters. SNP Indyref supporters. what is it about losing a genuinely democratic vote that these supposed supporters of democracy just do not get?

They can't understand the people who voted against them. They think they have the morale high ground. They use the high ground to throw stones.

And they say Trump is nasty!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3920168/Trump-victory-sets-protests-California-Oregon.html

[march]

I have just heard that Hillary Clinton polled more votes than Trump but due to the current Electoral College system voters location mattered, so not really one person one vote - Does anyone know if this is true?

[Vulcan Grey]

1 hour ago, Iconic Ride said:

My sister, who lives in California (which went for Hillary by a 2 to 1 margin), is not a happy camper today. 

On the plus side, as she noted, California voted to approve the recreational use of marijuana. "We're gonna' need it," she texted.

Federally it's still illegal... which means the banks can't touch the money, which makes it a cash only enterprise with no ability to deposit or even record the money as income possibly??  So here in Colorado, it became apparently that the state legal marijuana industry has been using their cash to buy real estate with cash offers much higher than asking prices...  Driving up the prices for all...

[comem47]

1 hour ago, Iconic Ride said:

Ha! Are you referring to the country's longest running economic positive growth rate (If somewhat subdued) and lowest unemployment figure in years, or something else?

I got great amusement from how Trump's harpies were never fact checking before blaming Obama for everything under the sun (but they should have been targeting Hillary C anyway). One that comes to mind is the Muslim US solder who died in 2004 but Katrina Pierson blamed Obama for his death (and he wasn't President till 2009). Obama also started WWII, etc   A daily blame game to flood the airwaves with BS hoping the masses would take it all as gospel (one believes what they want to hear).  Glad it's over. Time for my ears to slowly recover.  

[nerobi]

http://jalopnik.com/trump-threatens-to-repeal-fuel-economy-and-emissions-re-1788755

[Iconic Ride]

42 minutes ago, march said:

 

I have just heard that Hillary Clinton polled more votes than Trump but due to the current Electoral College system voters location mattered, so not really one person one vote - Does anyone know if this is true?

 

Absolutely, Marc. It appears that Hillary did win the popular vote (very close to 100% counted now) by about two tenths of a percent. This happened with Al Gore's results in 2000 as well. That was the year Bush 43 was "elected" by the Supreme Court's decision to halt the Florida recount.

When you vote for President in the U.S., you are actually voting for your respective state's "electors" (the number per state equaling the number of "representatives" and "senators" of your state, combined) The total number of the "Electoral College" is currently 538, hence the 270 electoral votes (a majority) required to win the election.

From time to time there have been attempts to do away with this arcane (and archaic?) system, and default to a true "one person, one vote" election process...a true democratic methodology. A measure to make this change passed the House of Representatives, and almost passed in the Senate, in 1971. Subsequent attempts have also continued to fail. 

The original rationale (as I understand it) of the "Founding Fathers" was to give the smaller states (a discrete political entity with a small population) a bit more say in the results than they might otherwise have had against a much larger state in influencing the final say. The original election process in the U.S. began as a "legislative" decision, and only later incorporated the common folk. The Electoral College was seen as a way to meld the two together.

[Bibs]

3 hours ago, ian29gte said:

rather scrummy '95 Argentinian Malbec from Waitrose

1982 pass you by? I only drink Malbec from SW France. Tastes nicer too

[march]

@Iconic Ride Thanks for the clarification. One question, hopefully not too dumb, how is the number of 'representatives' and 'senators' for each state defined?