HELP! 24k miles - clutch drops to floor 2010 Evora S1

[sqldbatx]

So I've had my car a week now and it's already failed me. The clutch has been great. I'm 39 yrs old so I don't get crazy anymore, in fact I've not even really taken the car to red line nor shifted hard or fast.

It's got 24k miles. I took a 185 mile drive to south Texas today to visit with a client. Half way home I pressed on the clutch and noticed it felt like it was grabbing much closer to the floor. I dismissed this as thinking my seat was not in the normal position since I moved it back to get in earlier and I also felt that my legs were probably fatigued.

I just got in the car and now the pedal won't pop out all the way without me pulling it with my foot. The clutch grabs so close to the floor that I couldn't get it into anything but 2nd gear. Luckily I parked on a slight incline so I rolled out of the parking spot.

What the heck has gone wrong? Please help.

[sqldbatx]

I'm guessing air in the clutch line? 

 

So this is interesting...   https://lemonlaw.org/complaints/lotus/evora/2010/

Quote

the car is a manual transmission. enginering/design defect causes engine heat to boil hydraulic clutch fluid, leading to hydraulic clutch fluid decay over time, leading to failure of master clutch cylinder and clutch pedal stock in down position while driving. this ultimately makes it impossible to get into neutral or shift gears. if this had happened on the highway in fourth gear, who knows what would have happened. lucky for me it happened in a parking lot. the car was in first gear at 5 mph and the clutch pedal was stuck in the down position. i could not shift gears or get the car into neutral. i had to stall the car to stop it. the car dealer is repairing it now with a retro fit device to prevent engine heat from boiling the bydraulic cluthc fluid. i think a reall is necessary becasue this problems happens to other lotus evora owners as i have heard from the local mechanic and the owner blogs on the internet.

 

Also found this...  http://wiki.the playground.org/a/Known_Issues_-_Evora#Clutch_Master_Cylinder

Quote

Clutch Master Cylinder

The design of the clutch master cylinder was improved upon for the Evora S, and can be retrofitted to the standard model if the original unit fails.

Some have reported rare case of failures of the early style clutch master cylinder leading to a change of clutch pedal feel, and an inability to operate the clutch^[6].

 

Does this sound about right?

Edited July 20, 2016 by sqldbatx

[agentdr8]

You'll want to swap the brake/clutch fluid (they share a reservoir) with some high temp DOT 4 like Castrol SRF or ATE Type 200, and bleed out all air from the clutch slave cylinder first, and then brake calipers, starting at passenger rear, then driver rear, pass front, driver front. And each caliper has 2 bleed nipples; 1 on the front and 1 on the back. That should definitely improve the clutch pedal feel, but if the master cylinder is failing, it won't be long before it gets mushy again. There was also a service bulletin, where the Lotus dealers would put heat reflective wrap on the clutch line near the slave cylinder to stave off the heat soaking into the line. 

Instead of getting another Lotus master cylinder (even the updated part), I'd recommend getting a Wilwood. Chaos over on LT put together a Wilwood kit for the Evoras; unfortunately it's not a drop-in for the early models with the metal m/c, but Play-Doh was able to adapt it for his early MY11. There's a similar thread here with more advice/recommendations. 

[superdavelotus]

Check your service history to see if the fluids were changed after 4 years, it should be in with your receipts. If it hasn't or you can't find a receipt then assume it hasn't been done. As for the car only covering 24K, that's irrelevant. My Audi has to have it's fluids changed every 2 years because it absorbs water and that's a German car!

I side tip, if you have some bite then try pumping the pedal, it may help you out of your tricky spot next time and give you a better bite to get you home. It's air in the system and when you press your pedal, it's just compressing the air and not pushing the slave cylinder at the other end.

Regards,

 

David

[JayEmm]

Sounds like the exact symptoms I had when the cylinder went on my old 3 series track car. Can happen to anything really. Hope you get it sorted soon!

[sqldbatx]

Went out to the car this morning and the clutch goes all the way to the floor with no resistance and doesn't come back up. Guess it's getting a tow somewhere. Thanks for the input, I'll check on the Wilwood.

[superdavelotus]

Have you checked your fluid level is above the side port outlet to your clutch master cylinder?

[sqldbatx]

I'm guessing this isn't it? Where should I be looking?

[Bibs]

Other end of the car mate. 

That's your coolant expansion tank, you want the brake/clutch fluid reservoir under the front access panel. Release is inside the car, hanging down from under the dash in front of the HVAC control area.

[sqldbatx]

Looks fine. Seems the fluid is pretty thin. If you poke the reservoir the fluid moves around pretty easily. I would have thought it to appear thicker. Heck I don't know.

[a7esk]

Just had mine changed with the same reason , Exhaust can heat the fluid up as the pipe is close in one area  , Silverstone Lotus Changed fluid full flush through found air in system .

Heat chilled added .

All ok .   

[gregs24]

That fluid looks very dark to me - suggesting it has boiled.

Fluid change for a starter

 

[sqldbatx]

Are the brakes supplied from the same fluid reservoir?

Also, Is there a wiki on bleeding the clutch fluid?

[JAWS]

Yes it's a brake/clutch fluid reservoir. Your fluid does look particularly dark so it would certainly be worth changing it as it could have overheated. However there is a black feed pipe which seems to "dye" the fluid in the reservoir so you may find the fluid at the brake calipers is golden. Agentdr8's post gives you good insight in to how to change the fluid.

[agentdr8]

1 hour ago, sqldbatx said:

Also, Is there a wiki on bleeding the clutch fluid?

I don't know that I've seen a DIY write-up here on TLF, but there is this one on LT. 

[a7esk]

Lotus Silverstone bleed all brakes then the master cylinder which is not easy to do need a car ramp .

Did have a recall work done in 2011 changed master cylinder.

this link might help .

 

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f170/clutch-master-cylinder-recall-163786/#/forumsite/20667/topics/163786?page=1

Eddie 

[sqldbatx]

Picked up some Pentosin Super Dot 4 (supposed to have a boiling point of 509f) https://www.amazon.com/Pentosin-1204116-Super-Brake-Fluid/dp/B007PCQCIU/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469052475&sr=1-1&keywords=pentosin+super+dot+4  Think this stuff will be OK for a while?

I'm hoping that is good enough for the moment and I'll order the Castrol srf in a few thousand miles.

I was able to pump the clutch with the car running and it magically was back to normal, so I drove it up to my mechanic to bleed and change the fluid tomorrow. He mentioned putting header wrap of some other heat resistant material on the line. What are you'lls thoughts?

 

Thanks!

[agentdr8]

Should be fine. Heat wrap on the line is definitely a good idea. 

[sqldbatx]

Wow. I just looked up the boiling point of the Castrol SRF and it's wet boiling point is 518F and dry is 590F.  I'm not sure what the difference between wet and dry is but this Pentosin is 329F wet and 509F dry. Which is about the same as the ATE Type 200. Has me wondering now.

[agentdr8]

Dry is when the fluid is brand new and uncontaminated. Wet is after the fluid has absorbed 3.7% water by volume. Even after a complete brake/clutch fluid flush, you'll still have some level of contamination when you put fresh fluid in. The higher the wet boiling point, the longer it'll last before it needs to be flushed again. 

It then comes down to driving preference/style vs. cost vs. flush frequency. 

[sqldbatx]

Gotcha. So I should be fine then I suppose. Or I should say I'll see how the cheap high temp stuff goes and knowing it has to be flushed again at some point I'll have the good stuff on hand and waiting.

 

Thanks again all!

[superdavelotus]

Can you take a side shot of your reservoir and also a shot of the pipe off the side to make sure fluid is in this line?

[sqldbatx]

Update: I had the fluid changed/bled. Clutch great.... up until about 10 miles of driving and then overnight parking. In the morning the clutch is spongy. After the is pumped 3 or 4 times with the car running it's back to normal. I'm guessing this is the master cylinder?

 

Thanks!

[JayEmm]

On 7/28/2016 at 02:27, sqldbatx said:

Update: I had the fluid changed/bled. Clutch great.... up until about 10 miles of driving and then overnight parking. In the morning the clutch is spongy. After the is pumped 3 or 4 times with the car running it's back to normal. I'm guessing this is the master cylinder?

 

Thanks!

Sounds possible, or the fluid bleed wasn't done correctly

[sqldbatx]

FYI: Master cylinder was changed and everything has been great since. Thanks all!