Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Andyww]

11 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

It's a worry if it's that tight! 

There is a fundamental error in the pictures though, the box cant be locked by engaging forward and reverse together  if the other shaft has already been removed!

[910Esprit]

Remove 11 & 19 then a large box spanner removes 12.   On every occassion I've done it the outside of my box spanner has also serendipitously backed off 10, which suggests its not particularly tight.  Alternatively, a tube with a couple of tangs cut with an angle grinder will get it separately .

[Lotusfab]

The play in onesid on mine may not be the bearing it might be the ring nut is loose allowing the bearing  to move. Will find out soon!

What engine oil is everyone using?

Like the tube idea.

[Andyww]

1 hour ago, Lotusfab said:

 

What engine oil is everyone using?

 

Crikey thats another 5 pages of discussion

Mobil 1 10w-60

[910Esprit]

Mobil 1 15/50 and was Millers 10/60 before then.    I'm not too precious.   Think any good quality oil regualrly changed will serve you well.   I'm still on std grind mains & bigends at 110K,  With pressure still well within spec.  Are you planning to run in using a std mineral oil?   If you have put new rings into 'old' bores, I personally wouldn't go straight onto a synthetic.     

[Lotusfab]

I was thinking mineral 20/50 before Andy mentioned synthetic. Would be interested in other views on this? 

[910Esprit]

I would go with your plan....

[Andyww]

Oh and Redline MTL in the gearbox. 

[ChrisJ]

Running in - Castrol Magnatec.

Once run in: Castrol Edge or Mobil 1.

Gerald @ GST had me run my Esprit on Magnatec for 10k before switching to fully synthetic to ensure everything was well imbedded. His reasoning was if you switch to fully synthetic too soon you run the risk of ending up with a "slow" engine. Currently part way through doing the same in my Excel.

 

 

[drdoom]

For seating new rings it's a non-synthetic oil wanted, with adequate zinc/phosphorous for tappet/cam protection. Also something like Graphogen on the lobes/tappets for start-up. If cams/tappets are not already run-in together ( i.e. either are new ) try not to let revs dwell below 2000 for at least the first 20 minutes of run time, all else permitting. Better to shut down for adjustments or to address leaks than it is to idle at normal revs. Break-in will be best enabled through driving ASAP, once all is known to be sound and safe for the road, and do not treat as fragile. Rather, give it some moderately brief cycles of Wellie to mid- level revs, lifting off smartly for cooling of interfaces before repeating after a respite. This puts the rings to work and then cools them in cycles thus enabling their bedding in. There is no reason why properly prepared bores/rings won't seat quite rapidly if driven as described above and, once done, it's fine to switch over to synthetic.

Most oils now have greatly diminished z/p to prevent premature catalyst degradation, so bear that in mind for your old era lump, which wants the z/p for tappet/cam longevity. Something greater than 1400ppm zinc is in order from the first fire-up, and do use synthetic once the rings have been run in. Stay with 50 hot viscosity, if not 60, so 10w-60, 15w-50, 20w-50 for example. To start select an oil suitable for break-in, drain after first run has at least ensured cam break-in then run another fill for several hundred miles and drain. Change the filters with each refill but do not discard until confident all is right with the engine, an examination of the entrails may be desired for diagnosis if something seems amiss.

Harry Martens has advised me to run Redline MT-90 in the new transaxle provided.

Cheers

[CHANGES]

5 hours ago, drdoom said:

For seating new rings it's a non-synthetic oil wanted, with adequate zinc/phosphorous for tappet/cam protection. Also something like Graphogen on the lobes/tappets for start-up. If cams/tappets are not already run-in together ( i.e. either are new ) try not to let revs dwell below 2000 for at least the first 20 minutes of run time, all else permitting. Better to shut down for adjustments or to address leaks than it is to idle at normal revs. Break-in will be best enabled through driving ASAP, once all is known to be sound and safe for the road, and do not treat as fragile. Rather, give it some moderately brief cycles of Wellie to mid- level revs, lifting off smartly for cooling of interfaces before repeating after a respite. This puts the rings to work and then cools them in cycles thus enabling their bedding in. There is no reason why properly prepared bores/rings won't seat quite rapidly if driven as described above and, once done, it's fine to switch over to synthetic.

Most oils now have greatly diminished z/p to prevent premature catalyst degradation, so bear that in mind for your old era lump, which wants the z/p for tappet/cam longevity. Something greater than 1400ppm zinc is in order from the first fire-up, and do use synthetic once the rings have been run in. Stay with 50 hot viscosity, if not 60, so 10w-60, 15w-50, 20w-50 for example. To start select an oil suitable for break-in, drain after first run has at least ensured cam break-in then run another fill for several hundred miles and drain. Change the filters with each refill but do not discard until confident all is right with the engine, an examination of the entrails may be desired for diagnosis if something seems amiss.

Harry Martens has advised me to run Redline MT-90 in the new transaxle provided.

Cheers

Quality post ,  well said that man..   

[Lotusfab]

4 hours ago, Buddsy said:

I have a small job for you....put the cam covers on the right way round 

 

buddsy

Well done, I was hoping someone would spot that! 👍🏻😀😀😀

[Lotusfab]

Happily they are just resting in there as I need to redo the oil filler cover. 

[Paul Coleman]

On 19/03/2019 at 17:18, Lotusfab said:

The engine is nearly there just painting the covers in crinkle black.  

I hope they last longer than the ones I did for mine. After a while the paint flakes off and looks s**te. I recently had a pair powder coated with black crinkle which should cure the problem.

[Lotusfab]

I used VHT crinkle black. Very good paint normally. Will see how it lasts. 

[Lotusfab]

On 23/03/2019 at 11:07, Lotusfab said:

There's a 46 mm nut in there and a ring nut, two tools.

So part 12 is 46 mm. Then part 10 is the ring nut.

I may not need to take out the secondary shaft as the gearbox has already been rebuilt. I just need to replace the third gear and maybe some of the rusted selector forks. Depends how they clean up.

Got one of these nuts off(part 12) it measures 44 mm ! Also the eBay box spanner is pretty poorly made a 2 mm variance! Maybe old school tools are the way ahead. There's a small grub screw in it to stop it rotating. I have a solution for the ring nut spanner put a small steel strip across the ring nut cut outs. Then cut two grove in a fifty mm box spanner. Slot it over the top with a half inch drive socket on the end so you can set the torque. Will try this soonnand report back. Of course the shaft has to be out for it to work, but no welding required.

[Steve V8]

When i was a kid pre teens, I asked for a socket set for Christmas, imagine my disappointment on Christmas morning to find a bag of box spanners under the tree...I still have them, they have been so useful over the years.

[Lotusfab]

They're probably a lot better than the eBay ones! 

I'm being thwarted by the gearstick lever circlip. I can't find one. The spring type isn't working as it's too thin. Maybe an eclip might work but it will have to be the correct design. I have ordered two so far that won't work! The box if rubbishis filling up real quick! 

[Lotusfab]

Ok, so now it seems you can only buy a 46 mm box spanner. This means making the tool bespoke to undo and tighten the nut. It has to fit properly so you can torque the nut correctly. The ring nut also has to be torqued. The spanner I bout for the speedo but doesn't work. It's 36 mm, but the jaws have worn to about 37 mm! If I was a welder no problem, I could knock up these tools really easily.

[910Esprit]

44mm is 1 3/4"  - Maybe its imperial?    If I remember, I'll measure mine when I get home        

[Lotusfab]

Thanks. That exactly what I thought and funnily enough Triumph make a 1 3/4 gearbox box spanner. It's not long enough but could be adapted to work with another bigger box spanner welded onto the outside. £21. 

I'm guessing whoever rebuild these didn't tirquectge nuts correctly because they did have the tools. The nut came off far too easily. Maybe that's why there was play in the shaft? We will see I'm slowly getting this sorted.

[Lotusfab]

The ring nut needs 72 lb ft. Should be able to achieve this with my idea above. The nut needs 108 lb ft. This needs a correctly fitting box spanner. Will report back on this triump box spanner.

[Andyww]

29 minutes ago, 910Esprit said:

44mm is 1 3/4"  - Maybe its imperial?    If I remember, I'll measure mine when I get home        

Absolutely no way would Citroen be using imperial sizes! Any match would be co-incidental.

French manufacturers only use metric, they invented it after all. But they use odd sizes such as 9mm and 7mm hex are often found on French cars.

[Steve V8]

16 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Absolutely no way would Citroen be using imperial sizes!

Maybe they would if they were importing that shaft from the UK, Sheffield steel is the best in the world.

[Lotusfab]

Its acedemic really as you can't buy a 44 mm box spanner. It actually measures just over 44 mm. The 1 3/4 will work better than a 46 mm which doesn't fit over the nut and is very poorly made.

Have just removed the speedo nut. Pretty easy, although it needs a new one as the tab broke off! A Ford Granada viscous fan spanner 36 mm did the trick. It's about £10. The nut wouldn't budge until I extended the spanner handle. I did this by using the speedo gear as a midpoint pivot. One end of the breaker bar in a metal ball joint remover cylinder with the handle of the spanner, midpoint on the speedo gear and me on the end. Easy when you have a method that works! 

Gear lever problem solved by a box of E clips! 

Here the spanner I used, no need to file it fits perfectly! I noticed a water pump nut spanner whilstbin the shop. I bought it as it looks like it can be cut to make a ring nut spanner!