Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Fridge]

I'm no expert on setting suspension geometry, as I said, I just used the parallel method to obtain a basic alignment and for me assess what shims I was likely to require when done professionally.

However you don't just weight to obtain it's road (driving) weight, but to level the car. Looking at your rear suspension I suspect it needs to sit lower, but as I stated during your colour reference process, photos can be misleading.

I would seriously recommend you ask the rolling road place if they can recommend a place the sets up geometry. I may not be able to tell the difference between our S1s (though I suspect I could), but I certainly could tell the difference in mine.

Very annoying if marks made due to external work. After all the hours spent restoring these cars, as you mentioned earlier.

[Lotusfab]

2 hours ago, Fridge said:

I'm no expert on setting suspension geometry, as I said, I just used the parallel method to obtain a basic alignment and for me assess what shims I was likely to require when done professionally.

However you don't just weight to obtain it's road (driving) weight, but to level the car. Looking at your rear suspension I suspect it needs to sit lower, but as I stated during your colour reference process, photos can be misleading.

I would seriously recommend you ask the rolling road place if they can recommend a place the sets up geometry. I may not be able to tell the difference between our S1s (though I suspect I could), but I certainly could tell the difference in mine.

Very annoying if marks made due to external work. After all the hours spent restoring these cars, as you mentioned earlier.

Ahh I thought you said weigh the car in the previous post! Yes I understand levelling. Thats why the landrover discovery I rebuilt the front suspension on must be put into tight tolerance mode using a computer before suspension align is attempted, although not many companies seem to know this, because they never read the Landrover alignment guide! I can’t see why you would weight the whole car on the Lotus? I want it set up for just me in it. I suspect this is all a bit irrelevant when you are just popping out for a coffee every now and then and not screaming around the track on a track day.

 

 

 

. 

[Chillidoggy]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

 I do intend to let Northampton motor sport tune it on a rolling road. I have reached the limit of what I can do with my equipment. Its so much better than before, but still not good enough.
 

 

 

Hopefully they won't cause any damage when strapping it down for the dyno testing.

[Fridge]

Fabian, I think you need to read up on what is involved in setting up suspension geometry. It is not just weighting a car and alignment.

I did say weigh the car. Track Torque  Racing weighed each corner, under the wheels to make sure it is level, after weighting it accordingly. Something I suspect your Turbo is not currently judging by your photos, as it appears tail high. Without that basis your alignment will be in doubt I suspect. A good, reliable tuning place will be able to assess and adjust your thorough preparation as a basis, as they did with my S1 work.

What shock absorbers have you fitted to your Turbo?

[Chillidoggy]

Northampton Motorsport also do geometry set-ups. Two birds with one stone!

[v8vantage]

Any suspension setup is always a compromise. Doing a perfect setup for the track is easy as you know the road surface it will be used on and set accordingly. The normal road we drive on has so many variables you can't set it up perfectly but compromise to get an all round setting that works well but not great on all surfaces. Using the string method to get close to factory specs is pretty much all you need, the rest is just throwing money away. It's better to make sure there is no slop anywhere in the suspension and everything is loaded and torqued correctly. To be honest I doubt any Esprit owner could tell the difference between a car set up using the string method and one done with all the latest electronic gizmos and machines. A good driver learns to drive around the deficiencies and makes up for them with skill, it's not rocket science but practice. Like flying a plane we set everything up to basic settings then trim it out on the go, car's aren't much different. Skill is more important whatever you fly or drive so just get out and learn to drive your cars properly rather than chasing every little setup change.

[Fridge]

42 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Northampton Motorsport also do geometry set-ups. Two birds with one stone!

There's your solution Fabian!

[drdoom]

3 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

I was thinking I should have published the cost of this as I went along. I think it would discourage quite a few from restoring. It is frightening how quickly costs escalate. 

My advice is buy the best possible one you can and just enjoy driving it knowing exactly how much you have paid. 

Fabian, your chronicle has been immensely helpful as is, no need to lift your skirt and reveal the financial cost of the program😆. Sufficient enough it is to stand as cautionary tale for any who'd look on with clear eyes from the off. On the other hand, we're all rather mad in our devotion to these wonders and may not be receptive to incursions of common sense. There's my confession.

 

[Lotusfab]

20 hours ago, Fridge said:

I'm no expert on setting suspension geometry, as I said, I just used the parallel method to obtain a basic alignment and for me assess what shims I was likely to require when done professionally.

However you don't just weight to obtain it's road (driving) weight, but to level the car. Looking at your rear suspension I suspect it needs to sit lower, but as I stated during your colour reference process, photos can be misleading.

I would seriously recommend you ask the rolling road place if they can recommend a place the sets up geometry. I may not be able to tell the difference between our S1s (though I suspect I could), but I certainly could tell the difference in mine.

Very annoying if marks made due to external work. After all the hours spent restoring these cars, as you mentioned earlier.

Some of the pictures of my car were done after the car had been jacked up. Heres one where it has been driven, look at the back wheel height and compare it to the arch. My entire suspension is new. The springs are also new as per the originals and I have factory rear shocks - no adjustment. I believe the rear height is correct and where it should be, Some of the well known pictures you see the car was weighted down to give it a lower stance. Heres a picture of the Bond ca4 and mine for comparison. Notice how high the front is sitting! 

I would say in these pics the rears are about the same height. If you look at the Bond film scene where he pulls up at the ice rink you will see the rear wheel is about where mine is. 

[Lotusfab]

Heres one where the car has been jacked up to align the decals and hasn’t settled back down.

[Andyww]

Yes that especially happens on the rear owing to the suspension design it goes ito massive camber when jacked up owing to the huge difference in upper vs lower link lengths.

Then when dropped down it cant reset owing to tyre friction on the ground.

[v8vantage]

I wouldn't worry about the ride height Fab, seems only one person on the forum fixated about it. Looks about the same as the Bond car in this pic.

 

[Lotusfab]

More ride height evidence

[Lotusfab]

my car in motion.

If you draw across the waistline trim I they look almost identical. 

[Lotusfab]

Heres a picture of a pristine dr6 sump you might know. Look at the suspension height.Think this proves conclusively that some of the stock photos have the car weighted down for the pictures.

[Andyww]

No doubt at all that some of the press shots either had weights or the rubber spring platforms removed. Anyway the figure is very clear in the manual, 170mm from bottom of cross member to ground for all Esprits. 

Unfortunately the lowest point on the Turbo is the bottom of the rad tray so lowering the car is a bit of a risk anyway.

[v8vantage]

I think you have pretty conclusive proof now Fab, there's nothing wrong with the ride height on your Esprit Turbo. Now if it looked like this I'd be mad!

 

[Fridge]

@Lotusfabif you catch the most recent episode of Salvage Hunters: Classic Cars it shows a late 50's car being aligned using the parallel string method, but also weighing the car at each corner. Though it only very briefly explains the more fundamental principles of why it's done. Worth watching.

[Lotusfab]

Thanks will have a look. 
 

[Sparky]

Almost missed this major milestone!  At 256 pages, this thread is arguably venturing beyond 8-bit.  Let's pray FabNet doesn't become self-aware.

[Fridge]

[Lotusfab]

I have finally reached the end of the journey with these cars. Its now only a matter of maintenance and tuning. I am now doing major building work on my house! When covid is over and we can travel I will be traveling to Cortina to finally draw a line under my Lotus journey. 
My issues started when I was 10 years old and the Spy Who Loved Me came out at the cinema! I can finally put this to rest having built two Bond cars, when I only really aspired to the S1. I shall enjoy driving them when we are allowed. The good news for you all is my wife assures me as soon as I cop it she will be selling both of them! 

[v8vantage]

9 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

I have finally reached the end of the journey with these cars. Its now only a matter of maintenance and tuning. I am now doing major building work on my house! When covid is over and we can travel I will be traveling to Cortina to finally draw a line under my Lotus journey. 
My issues started when I was 10 years old and the Spy Who Loved Me came out at the cinema! I can finally put this to rest having built two Bond cars, when I only really aspired to the S1. I shall enjoy driving them when we are allowed. The good news for you all is my wife assures me as soon as I cop it she will be selling both of them! 

Well done Fab, been a great trip so far but the journey's not over until you remove the key for the final time. Would be great to see them some day when the world reopens. Be well and have a nice smug smile on your face for a job well done. 

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Roo. Look me up when you get over.

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

The good news for you all is my wife assures me as soon as I cop it she will be selling both of them! 

Oooh for what you’ve told her you spent on them. Someone’s in for a bloody bargain 😬