New tyres

[Jacques]

No, and I should normally think they would last some 10.000 km's. We'll see with the new set and other brakes, geo, bushes etc.

For example, I've never had any Eagle F1 tires to last over 10.000 km's. Nor any toyo. The "walk" or tramlining is about thesame on those two. But I think the toyo have better grip towards the end of it's usefull life, than the F1.

I am now thinking of some r888 but need correct sizes.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Giniw]

I think the r888 are not available to our size (rear), are they? (285/R18 for me) — I am going to check again!

EDIT: I can find 285 30 R18, not 35%.

[Jacques]

5 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

Jacques demonstrating his usual braking technique:

Haha hahaaaa! Very funny. But not on the old Toyota brakes anyway. But my new brakes.. well, that an entirely other matter, and more like the above. Ask some of my friends on the clubdrive the other day... He found out the hard way and nearly hit me. Now, some R888 and fun is guranteed

Speaking of which, I would say that the T1-Sport assymetric are also pretty okay in braking late into the corner, without spinning the car.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Jacques]

Oh yes. Or nearly. you can get the R888 in correct 235/40-17 and a lower 285/30-18 (should be 285/35-18).

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Giniw]

That makes a 14.25mm difference in tyre height if I am not wrong. It might be acceptable but I am not sure I would go that route.

[Jacques]

No, but it's worth asking toyo headquaters themselves, as they are known for making tires for fast driving that other brands don't always support.

I need the 315/30-18 for rears.  Which they DO make according to their homepage. Add the 235/40-17 front and you are flying through corners.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[swindon_alan]

You will be on 15 profile tyres next Jacques...

[Jacques]

Urgh! at least they steer quick and have less understeer. So could  maybe go a bit thicker on the front arb, to say 19mm

These must be made for some russian mafia show boy's car or a us rap band of some kind ...

But it's worth noting, that the 315/30-18 is exactly the same size as the SE Wheels and Sport300 Wheels. Or very very near, like 1 km/h near. That is fully acceptable in my book.

Just looked it up and they do both the R888 and the successor R888R in both front and rear for sizes mentioned.

I tried a bit of passenger-"driving" in another Lotus on R888 this Summer on track and it was really really astonishing. Cornerspeed and braking is so much better. Faster cornering and later better more stable braking.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[hedgerley]

48 minutes ago, Giniw said:

Oo
Only 3500kms?! Is that common on a Esprit?

On a side note, is that normal than the inside edge of the fronts are much more worn than the rest of the tyre? I think there is an invoice for a "recent" geometry check before I bought it, but I am still wondering. I will have to check the geometry.

This is normal for the Esprit fronts. It's to do with the 'anti-Ackerman' set up. There is a good explanation here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=17&t=62993

It's also why the fronts 'scrabble' and drag noisily during slow speed manoeuvring with big steering angles

[Giniw]

Thanks!

(For those who don't know what pro/anti-Ackerman is, here is a video I just found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2ONv5MrpFg)

[Escape]

I have to disagree about the tire wear. If done over 20k miles on the front Toyo T1 on my SE. Don't know how long they had been on the car when I bought it, and they're still fine! Reasonable thread left (3-4mm), equal wear and not lacking in grip. I have to add they're used in day-to-day traffic, so at a much more relaxed pace (bar a few occasions). Quite impressed, too bad they don't come in the exact size I need for the SE. Lack of alternatives means I'll probably go for 225/50R15, even if only V-rated.

[Jacques]

By bicycle is used for day to day trafic  Where I live, it simply doesn't pay to use a car for that purpose.

The Esprit is only used for some spirited back road driving every now and then. Daily easy use woill probably yield a lot more miles from them as you write.

I hear rumours about R888 (-and -r) giving quite good milage. Well, sort of.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Giniw]

@Escape > OK thanks, I will definitely check the geometry myself when I have time ^^

[hedgerley]

I now have the Toyo T1s all round and very nice they are too. More compliant than my old Goodyear' Eagle F1s so better bump absorption and a more comfortable ride. Car in for service/MOT at the moment so no long drives yet but a good decision I think.

Good prices from Openeo - £90 front, £130 rear - and fast delivery.

[Mightymetro]

Sorry to,revive the topic but thought it would be better than starting another.  I’m needing a full set for my v8 and am looking at some Nankang NS2-R and they have the correct sizes.  Anyone any experience of running them.  Obviously I’m not expecting big mileage from them 

[Mightymetro]

Little bump for anyone that has changed recently.  Just wondered what people are running and if they have a matching set.  I’m worried buying the semi slicks that it will give too much grip and spoil the handling.  Any thoughts ?

[Chillidoggy]

I prefer the same tyres all round, but the fronts are getting a bit awkward to match. I think the V8 has the same sizes as the S4s.

I had a new pair of Pirelli PZeros fitted on the rear last year, but struggled to find a correctly-sized Pirelli PZero to replace the worn Michelin Pilot Sports for the fronts. Ended up choosing a pair of Yokohama Advan Neova, and I reckon they’re as good, or even better than the previous Michelin Pilots in the dry. In the wet I reckon they’re not quite as good, but as I only ever drive in the wet when I get caught out in the rain, I’m happy with them.

I got them from Camskill tyres.

[Giniw]

1 hour ago, Mightymetro said:

I’m worried buying the semi slicks

Which ones?!

There are the Toyo T1 Sport which are (or were?) available both for the front and rear axle.

Toyo Proxes T1 Sport 235/40 ZR17 94Y XL (about 116,10 EUR each inc VAT in March 2018)
Toyo Proxes T1 Sport 285/35 ZR18 101Y XL (about 154,00 EUR each inc VAT in March 2018)

[Mightymetro]

I have had Toyo tyres on my previous TVR cerebra and was never that impressed with them, albeit they were the T1R model

the nankang NS2-R tyres are the ones I was looking at

maybe I just need to get over my OCD regarding having matching brands and style on front and rear 🙈

i think I can get the Pirelli asymmetrical pzero tyres as a matching set but they are nearly £1000 🤪

[Giniw]

I have heard "average" rating about the T1R indeed, but on another car (a R21T). To be honest my friend told me he felt they were quite bad on the wet.

I can't comment on the Nankang, and as the Pirelli, at the time I couldn't find any matching set on regular websites.

@Jacques is happy with the T1 Sport too. As for the wet I can't comment much since I tend to avoid driving in the wet anyway.
As for me, please be aware that it's the only tyre I had on my Esprit so I can't really compare to anything. Before them I had very old Goodyear fitted, from about 2002 if I remember correctly ... 😅 (they were on the car when I bought it in three years ago)

By the way, be careful, there is also the T1S, but it's a different tyre than the T1 Sport which we are talking about here.

[Mightymetro]

Thanks for the replies, maybe I’ll try the toyo’s 👍🏻

[Jacques]

I'll try to clarify:

I've had both old and new versions of the Goodyear Eagle F1 tires. Old were good down to the last mm. On a light car.

Newer version is a totally different patern, and they don't stick or last as well. Cornering is equal and wet weather drive is okay'ish on the old version (arrow) and a bit better on the new version (non-arrow). But of those two, I prefer the old arrow version.

The sets I've done on Toyo Proxes T1r, and currently also have, are a good precise grip on dry warm road, but crappy as soap in damp or wet weather,. I mean that. Really! If you want to be able to drive securely in wet weather, or just even damp roads, please, please take other tires. But again, on a dry warm road, they are good and steer well and brake well, and they stick well.

The T1s is a better tyre in my humble view.

The T1 Sport is again a much better tyre again, a whole different level. I've been using them in 235/40-17, 285/35-18 and the performance from them are really good. They warm up easily, they don't destroy themselves in hard driving (not track use, but let's call it spirited back road driving and hard repeated braking and steering, with full use of the 330 bhp and 4145 Nm from my Esprit. They are consistent down to the last mm, and the first set lasted only 3500 kms on the front, but more on the rear. Second set last better on the front, as I've redone the geo. They stand up to the 4 x 322mm semifloating 4 piston calipers and discs from AP well, and I trust them. For example, I've done torrential rain with them 3 times, and they are just fine.  Normal silent rain are fine as well and the Esprit does not feel insecure. I should mention that I drive easy and nice in rain and avoid it at all costs if at all possible. They don't spin around all the time in wet weather or on damp roads. Coming out of a corner or out of a roundabout, I can give more gas (not much, bit more) than with the T1r, and note: on wet roads. Another example is a dark night, driving on a narrow road, and speed was, well somewhat higher thn recommended on road signs, and suddenly I saw a fairly high stone on the right side of my lane, right in front of me, and I quickly made a sharp steering inout and back again, and they jsut stuck to the asphalt. No sliding around. Coming a bit hard into a corner, I don't find that they understeer, but seems to be pretty neutral, with sharp steering response and precision. Better than F1 for example. And better than T1R or T1s.

I also use a set of Pirelli P Zero Rosso Asimmetrico, and they are on the same level as the Proxes T1Sport. Very good grip, stays consistent, good wet road grip and secure braking. Very good grip in corners and not easy to break loose on normal clutch'ing. Still my engine can just fine spinthem on a warm dry road in 1, 2 and third. But a very good tire. Suits middle weight cars as the Esprit turbo SE well. Won't be worn down in a giffy.

I will try the Michelin pilot sport later on to know how it's like, and better still, the toyo R888R. Not milage but heat cycles are important here. But fast back road driving are not enough to take a full heat cycle out of them. Milage are supposed to be better than the R888. Have it from other Lotus drivers.

I've been on track with a set of R888R, and they stick ultra well, and are easy to control when sliding, pressed through cornering on Knutstorp race track.

But to do a set on my Esprit, I need yet another set of wheels… So anyone who have a set of S4s Futura's in euro sizes up for sale?

I'm aware of the new Toyo Proxes Tr1, but that is not relevant in our sizes on the esprit, so I cannot get those to try as well. Maybe on my Corrado and I'll be happy to report back here later on. In fact I am so tired of the toyo Proxes T1r, that I will probably take them off (1/3 worn) and throw them away, and install a better set of tires asap, read during the winter, as In never drive a car or motorcycle in the winter, so a good time to prepare a new set.

Hope it make it more clear, what my personal findings are.

Kind regards,

Jacques

 

[Mightymetro]

Thanks Jacques for that detailed response.  I agree with your comments on the Goodyear’s, I had both on a 911 and the older pattern felt much better.  

 

I had had a friend with a fiesta ST track car and he fitted some r888r tyres in 17” size and we travelled to the nurburgring which is around 600 miles each way, did around 10 laps and came home and they had worn much better than my old R888 tyres on my metro track car.  The only thing was the road noise was really bad.  They used to drone above 40mph.  They were so loud that he even took it for new wheel bearings but it didn’t solve the sound.  As soon as he changed tyres, sound gone 🤔

my wifes boxster 981 runs 20” wheels and has PZero Rosso and they have been fantastic tyres.  Very grippy, maybe 9000 miles from the rears.  Really impressed.  Would have gone for these if they had the correct size

right, I’m off to look for some Toyo T1 sports.  Thanks for the input 👍🏻

[Jacques]

Cheers. Maybe you want to write back here after having driven with the tires for a while, to aid others in the future.

Might be good to have  atire thread based on actual experience from several users.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[Giniw]

On 31/08/2019 at 23:58, Jacques said:

4145 Nm from my Esprit

Now that is impressive for a 90s 2.2L!!