what is a supercar

[robcun]

re: the 'super' being more than perf, looks, exclusivity - i think also has to mean 'modern'

great car, but there can be no doubt that the miura hails from the old design paradigm

the countach worked the hot new 70s conceptual design into a car - everything before it looks instantly dated

doesnt feel right to me calling anything pre-countach a 'supercar'

[oneshot]

re site above:-

supercar of the month is the sport 350, shame they cant get the facts right... brembo brakes , dont think so,

nice pic of oneshots 350 in the lotus gallery though!!

Fame at last

Dropped an email to them to correct the info about the brakes.

[Backmarker]

Fame at last

Dropped an email to them to correct the info about the brakes.

Dave,

Thats the car park at last years Supercar Sunday isn't it?

And that looks like Troy's car behind yours.

Graham.

[WayneB]

supercar sounds a bit boastful I think, ..........

I call the Esprit an Exotic car.

[Paul C]

I call the Esprit an Exotic car.

Pineapples and mangos are Exotic to me, but not a Norfolk built car with leyland bits here and there.

I'd settle for 'High Performance car' as then it can sit happy with Lambos and ferraris without the

supercar tag being debated or declined. The Esprit is fantastic and so is steak and kidney pie and

chips, neither of which are any more or less 'exotic' to me.

[bigsi]

now look here ... its an exotic, supercar, non-supercar british excentric exotic! so there

and bigi si says so

[MPx]

eerrrr...anything you say Bigsi !!

For over 25 years I've had a neat little SUPERCAR poster showing a Turbo G-car, a 308 and a 928 with the wannabe caption "CHOICES". Those cars are all supercars in my book, but dont really make it for many of the criteria set out above. What that says to me is that we all have our own criteria - of which the most important element is personal choice and rationale. Here's mine.

To me a supercar is an "exotic" sports car - but I recognise that exotic is another word just as hard to pin down - and a hypercar just a more expensive variant of a supercar.

The American mainstream haven't really done exotic until the very recent past (eg Ford GT) - their cars were as fast (in a straight line) but really just had big muscles.

The French do idiosychratic, which some term exotic, and some are fastish (like the Citroen SM) but they dont have any supercars do they?

The Germans produce the most clinical fast cars and easiest to defend in a stats scrap - but very few with a necessary phwoooaarrr factor.

The Italian sports car manufacturers struggle to produce much thats not supercar or hypercar worthy - even those that are reportedly crap to be in and drive.

The Lotus Carlton has the same performance stats as its contemporary Testarossa but the Rrari is and the LC aint a supercar. Equally there's lots of track cars (Ultima, Radical) that are quicker and just as impractical - but they're track cars not supercars. The A610 was often put up as competition to the Turbo G-car having similar performance, but I always thought of the Esprit as a Lotus Supercar and the A610 as a fast Renault. So its not just about speed and dynamics.

The Bently/Roller and Maybach brigade have the cost and luxury in spades - and are reasonably quick....but aren't supercars -couldn't be with those looks!!

So IMO "Supercar" is about the emotional response engendered. If it generates a response in you that says supercar then it is one. The Esprit is a Supercar to me ... but (if I'm honest) not a strong one. It only just qualifies on performance and cost grounds, tho its strong in looks, exclusivity, market sector - and of course the all important va va voom.

MPx

[rens914]

Nope

for me it's not a supercar

a very nice car with special lining

a car i am not going to sell for a long time

but

for me a supercar must not need to be improved directly

Brakes, Gearbox and dampers

a supercar must not be a built up car with parts from toyota,renault,citroen (do i miss a few ?)

gr Rens

[Dan]

'Supercar' is a relative term - today, so many otherwise-mundane cars boast 200+ bhp and 0-60 times under 6 seconds that I can't honestly call my Esprit a supercar. 20 years ago, when new? Possibly. I accept that whilst my Esprit gives me so much pleasure, to many people I'm probably just some tit in a flash car. I don't expect them to approve, or even to understand.

So many terms come to mind when trying to categorise the Esprit - hand-built, sports car, rare, wedge, exotic - but at the root of all of this, when I think hard, to me it's a Lotus first, and an Esprit second. This is odd as I came to know Lotus via the Esprit, and I still believe the Esprit (when current) was the pinnacle of Lotus' road car development, but when I stand and gaze at it, my eye is always drawn to that yellow and green 'ACBC' badge - the mark of the engineering, ingenuity, history and passion.

So 'supercars' come and go, but my Esprit will always be a Lotus, and that's more than enough for me

[USAndretti42]

I think we've had this discussion before. Anyway, I think that a supercar has to be rare, expensive, dramatically-styled, very fast and powerful compared to its contemporaries. I don't think the use of mundane cars' bits for switches, locks etc. matters. Old Ferraris are full of Fiat bits. They should have more than four, preferably 8 or more cylinders though. When the S1 was released it had the looks, was pricey and sales weren't great which helped in the rarity stakes. Performance and cylinder count, however, was not enough to get it into the supercar bracket. The turbo fixed the performance part but, by then, I think the looks were too familiar. So I don't think it ever became a fully-fledged supercar but was always a junior supercar like the Dino, Urracco, and Merak. Maybe the V8 counts as a true supercar but suffers from being so similar to an old design.

[Bibs]

for me a supercar must not need to be improved directly

Brakes, Gearbox and dampers

a supercar must not be a built up car with parts from toyota,renault,citroen (do i miss a few ?)

gr Rens

You'll be very hard pressed to find a 'supecar' which hasn't used donor parts. Lambo's have the same window switches as our GM Esprit's, Ferrari's use parts from Fiat etc. My argument to people who lambast the door handles on my car is that Lotus don't make door handles, they make supercars Didn't the Diablo use the switch gear from a Marina too? Is that not a supercar 'cos of the parts, and not the whole?

The Esprit is a supercar. It has the performance and handling, gets the looks and admiration, and kids have posters of them on their walls.

[WayneB]

The costs of tooling up and producing automotive switch gear, lighting and door handles etc. is astronomic if you cant spread the costs over thousands of units, which is why low volume manufacturers like Lotus resort to using "off the shelf" parts in there cars. Not as some have suggested so they can make huge profits off the cars .

The cost of producing a special headlamp or tailamp cluster might exceed the whole R+D budget for a car like the Esprit, so without being able to resort to the use of the Marina doorhandles, TR7 headlamp lift motors, Princess switchgear etc. our cars could not/would not have been built , period.

That goes for cars made by Ferrari, Maserati, Aston -Martin, Lamborghini and DeTomaso also.

I was just looking at pics of Countach rear ends and remembered the tailamps Lamborghini used were Altissimo units originally made for Iveco Fiat Busses.

[chats371l]

For me the Esprit is a Supercar. I know that today statistics vary greatly from when the Esprit was first conceived but the New Esprit if given 4.8 BMW engine as hinted at would definately have the Supercar statistics. What makes it a Supercar for me is other peoples reactions when you are driving on the road. If other people think and treat you like you are driving a Supercar (which I am sure we can all recognise from past experiences) then it must be one!

[M Blur]

Can I propose the initial categories are insufficiently comprehensive:

lightweight sports in.c lightweight roadsters - MX5,

super-sports - Lotus Exige, high-po 7 types, s'charde Exige etc.

sportscar - inc. larger roadsters - Z4, Boxster etc.

Gran Turismo i.e. 2+2 - usually coupe or 4 door - Maser GT or Quatroporte, 911

sports gt - swb coupes - usually still 2+2 or long noise - large n/a engines

super gt - high power derivatives - 599, Bentley Conti would be a good example

hyper gt - Veyron, McLaren SLR, Brabus CLS

hypercar - Macca, Enzo etc.

[Mad Zero]

Due mainly to the well documented "disappointing performance" of the original S1 Esprit I've always thought of the n/a variants as being 'sports cars' whilst the Turbos are 'Supercars'.

They are definately ALL exotic though!

[neal]

A good judge is how much they cost to run and maintain!

e.g. The Macca eats clutches at the rate of one every 5k miles and it costs

Edited February 26, 2007 by neal

[esprit350]

note on the veyron,

the other week on Top Gear, James May said as he was trying to reach 250 mph plus that the tyres would only last another 50 mins but did not matter because the fuel would run out in 12 mins, so what is the point, not only is an ugly car but all you would do with it is drive from petrol station to tyre bay to petrol station to airport to pick up the french mechanic .................

[Advantage]

note on the veyron,

the other week on Top Gear, James May said as he was trying to reach 250 mph plus that the tyres would only last another 50 mins but did not matter because the fuel would run out in 12 mins, so what is the point, not only is an ugly car but all you would do with it is drive from petrol station to tyre bay to petrol station to airport to pick up the french mechanic .................

During the development of the Lotus Carlton it was discovered that the rear diff had the potential to overheat if held at max speed for much longer than 30 minutes. A small panic ensued with various remedies or alert systems being suggested, until it was pointed out that the fuel tank could only hold a maximum of 40 minutes of fuel (at vmax) so it was unlikely to be a problem in the real world.

[M Blur]

remember the day when 300bhp was a supercar.. where did we go wrong lads.. I also feel sad that the Macca has been eclipsed - Britain no longer makes the world's definitive supercar (on paper at least) anymore.. the Macca was all about engineering excellence whereas VW made the impossible then spent a million from making it work and stopping it braking down. Both end results are unique and awesome but the Macca jst seems way more clear for having a 10th of the tech,, know what I mean..??

anyway - where's the 1000lbft+ Bristol Jetfighter T - my inlaw is going to try and fab the new bodywork needed for that 270mph potential vmax.

[M Blur]

I was just looking at pics of Countach rear ends and remembered the tailamps Lamborghini used were Altissimo units originally made for Iveco Fiat Busses.

that's right - with fancy red lens surrounds - still lovely tho. hence replica cer makers found those bits easy.. later Diablo used Nissan 300zx pop up and fixed lamp units Nobles still have Ford mk1 mondeo rera lights. So many examples, so little time.

[cly_mitchell]

First, all cars are parts cars. The XJS and 928 both use GM turbo 400. I my opinion, which used in conjuction with $1.50 will buy you a Coke at the local convenience store, the Miura is the defintion of a supercar. Ferrucio Lamborghini once said " the Miura was like a magnificent mistress to me" "uncomfortable, very expensive, but unforgetable". My Lotus is the same for me.

Comparing todays supercars against yesterdays is futile. My Esprit will have a hard time running with a Mustang today, but in '83 it was a different story. There was only a hand full of cars that could run with it reguardless of cylinders or where the tail lights came from.

Supercar...............you bet your a**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ibandre]

Have any kid draw what they think is a supercar. I bet you it`s going to look like an Esprit!! Like mentioned earlier, even ferari and lambos are bulit up with parts from other cheesy cars. That is a bad argument for not calling the Esprit a supercar. It is definetely a supercar, and it is in fact very exotic to look at. With a V8 engine,and twin turbo, it sounds pretty damn fast. It will make peoples heads turn anywhere you take it. It is also a very rear car, and is in fact refered to as a supercar in every car magazine it`s in.

Before I even considered buying one, I always thought of the Esprit as a SUPERCAR!!!

[red vtec]

As above,not trying to stir just wondering how they stand up.

[Tentenths]

Depends on your definition of a supercar

Am sure there's a previous thread on this... yep, here it is... threads merged.

[peteyg]

Yes!

I like to use Mr Clarksons description of what makes a supercar...'Looks good, goes fast. Nothing else matters!'

Sadly I feel the S2 does not fit into this category. Looks good B) Goes fast ....